David Shair - Storyboard Artist, Kamp Koral, Looney Tunes Cartoons, Fish Hooks | AW10

Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes in animation? Before the cartoon becomes what it is, so much happens that we don’t necessarily know about yet. This week, I want us to appreciate all the amazing stuff that happens in order to create a completed cartoon. And that’s why our guest this week is the storyboard artist for Looney Tunes and Fish Hooks, my good friend, David Shair.

David has had quite an adventure throughout his career. From his childhood, to working in wildlife preservation, to finally realizing his dream and becoming a storyboard artist. David shares his experiences with us in this value-filled episode. If you dreamed of becoming a storyboard artist, or if you’ve always wondered what happens behind the glitz and glamour of cartoons, this episode is a must-watch.

Show Notes:

[5:16] David’s childhood and what lead him to become a storyboard artist.

[10:40] What does a storyboard artist do in the animation pipe chain?

[19:45] His stint as a fellow for the Wildlife Conservatory Society.

[26:35] How it feels like to work on such a famous show like the Looney Tunes series.

[33:27] Getting to know David’s favorite characters and jobs.

[49:48] Q&A with David during the live IgTV.

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Twitter: @Alicyn 

Transcript :

Intro Welcome to Alicyn's Wonderland. I'm your host, Alicyn Packard. Join us as we journey through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole into the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. Hey, do a girl a favor, and please subscribe to this podcast and go on iTunes and leave us a good review. If you like the show, please help spread the word, it really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. Alicyn Happy Wonderland Wednesday! Today, our guest is my very special friend, David Shair. And David is a storyboard artist. Now, maybe many of you know what a storyboard artists does, but maybe some are not familiar with that. So we're gonna dive in with Dave, on what a storyboard artists does today. Dave's credits include Kamp Koral for Nickelodeon, the new SpongeBob spinoff, it's airing on Paramount Plus. Dave also has worked on the new Looney Tunes, including writing some episodes as well. And when I first met Dave, he was working on a show called Fish Hooks, which is a really fun show. Hey, guys. Hey, Julie. It's good to see you guys. Thank you guys so much for tuning in live. If you have a friend that you might want to invite to the show, you can go ahead and click on the arrow. Maybe it's this side, click on the little airplane button, and you can go ahead and invite them. I'm going to go ahead and add Dave to the stream. No, he's not here yet. I'm going to go and vamp for a few minutes while Dave gets on the stream. And then we'll be ready to go. Here he is. Hey, Dave. I am going to add you, and invite you. Let's see, there you are my friend. Let's hear it for Dave Shair. It's weird, I called you Dave. I always called you David. I only really know you as a David, so. David Oh. Alicyn Hi! David Hi! Hey! Alicyn It's so good to see your face. David Good to see you too. Wow. Hey, look. Alicyn Welcome to Alicyn's Wonderland. Thank you so much for joining us. David Totally. Hey great, great to be here. You're right above me. Look at that. Alicyn Yeah, we're like The Brady Bunch here. David Yeah, totally. This is, ah. Alicyn Which one are you? If you had like a Brady Bunch character, which which one would you be? David Oh, which one you think is most like myself, or which one would I want to be? Alicyn Both. David Oh, gosh. No, I, it's been a while since I've seen, The Brady Bunch. I'm probably, well I am the youngest, so is that Bobby? I'll be Bobby. Yeah, that probably fits. But I was by my, I was, I had two way older sisters. So I was pretty much, grew up from five, alone in the house. So, I'm sort of youngest only, I guess. But who would you want to be? I wonder who you want to be? Was Greg, Greg was pretty popular. But so is Marsha. Marsha is pretty popular. I think. Alicyn Marsha. Marsha. Marsha. David Yeah, she got whatever she wanted. That's pretty cool. Alicyn Well, we can't both be Marsha. David That's true, I guess. Okay. Well, then, I am Jim. Alicyn I'll fight you for it. It's so good to see your face. I haven't seen you in person, you know. we've chatted, and I've seen your avatar. But I haven't seen you in person in a couple of years. I think. How are you doing? David I am just an avatar now. That's all I really am. Alicyn Aren't we all? David It's been a while though. Yeah, I know, in person that's like, Oh, we'll remedy that soon, I promise. Alicyn Yes. Yes. That's so good to have you on here. The funny story for you guys that are tuning in. Dave, do you ever go by Dave? I always call you David. David Either, either one. You know, call me whatever you want. I'll understand. Alicyn So Dave-slash-David was one of our, one of the guests on the old-school, original podcast version. No, the second reboot of Alicyn's Wonderland, because the show started as a web series, then became a podcast, and now is being rebooted as an IgTV show, and turning into a podcast on Monday. So, yeah. David It's the reimagining. Alicyn Yeah, it's the reimagining. It's like we're taking it back to the future. David That's amazing. Alicyn They should make a movie about that. David They should. Oh, someday we'll get some funding. And we'll make that. Alicyn Yeah. I think it could be very marketable. Back to the Future. David I get it. I think. You got to think about it a little bit, but I think I could get it. Alicyn So let's start at the very beginning. Young, little David. And I think what you do is, as a storyboard artist, is such a cool profession because I was talking with Elizabeth Ito last week and she was saying, you know, as a kid, she didn't realize that you could be an artist, so, and not just being a starving, starving, you know, bohemian or something. And you've, you've made this career as a storyboard artist, and I'm so curious about how you got involved in all that. How did it start? David Oh, well, um, and I guess I, I liked to draw as a kid, but I wasn't very good at it. And I didn't do it like prolifically, I just like to do the mainly Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Looney Tunes characters. Maybe a Disney Princess, here and there. So those were most of my, what I like to bring to life, if I feel like drawing. Alicyn No Heathcliff? No, no, Garfield? David No, Garfield is hard as heck. Oh, gosh. But I, you know, there's a game where it's called, we play it at the studio, sometimes called draw a Garfield, and just out of your imagination, just draw him. It's very hard. He's, he's, he's a puzzle. But, you know, you could, you could do it maybe with practice. But he is, it is a game we play because he is a different one to play. But yeah, no, but I do like Heathcliff. I do like our guy. I just never really drew them. Um, and then there was a point in high school where it was like, Oh, you can't do this quite as a job. You got to get serious, kid. Even though I did art classes and such. And I was like, oh, okay, like you have to be talented to do it. And I was like, thinking, so I'm mostly eating lunch during art class here. Oh, did I freeze for a second there? I did, right. Okay. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I was mostly eating lunch in art class during high school. So that was more, and I didn't do you know, I wasn't really, I was just like, it's fun. But it wasn't, I wasn't taking it seriously in my mid 20s. Until I got to that point, I got into improvisational acting. Alicyn You did Groundlings. David That led me into animation. I did, well, this, I did do Groundlings eventually. At this point, I was in New York. So I did this place called "The PIT" The People's Improv Theater there. And it's kind of where, there's a bunch of improv theaters in New York City, all around, I want to say like the 20s, in the 20s somewhere, maybe the 28th street or something. But they're all kind of there. And I took a career class there. And because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I did, I was working with animals, at that point, at the zo. But I wanted, I don't know, entertainment and improv, I was like acting. But there's got to be something here, and animation popped up in the career class. And I was like, Alright, I'm, I'm just gonna go for it. It has acting. I just need to learn to draw. I went to art school. And that was, so and then just did that. Alicyn Wow. So you actually didn't go to art school till you're in your mid 20s? That's an interesting career path. David Late 20s. Yeah. Alicyn Late 20s. Wow. David Yeah. It was, you can do this, I think at any point. So, you know, don't, it's never too late, I think. I mean, Alicyn I love that. David Yeah, that's, there's even later, you could do even later, way later than the late 20s. But that was just when I happened to do it. Alicyn How did your family feel about your sudden career change? David Oh, they were very supportive. And that was, that was incredibly helpful. You know, it's you can't always choose, you can't always choose your family. Luckily, mine was very supportive. And they said, you know, give, try a semester, see how it goes. And the first semester, and in that first semester, I was like, Oh, I am, I was like, I'm a space cadet. Like, it's hard to concentrate with me sometimes. But I found out I could spend like 30 to 40 hours on one drawing, and just like doing it, you know, not like straight, but like a good amount of time, each time and just sort of like, focused on it. And I thought, like, Oh, I could never do that. And just like one thing, but I found out I could, and I was like, Okay, all right, maybe this isn't, maybe this is something I can do. Alicyn That's amazing. And it seems like cartooning and storyboarding is kind of a cross section of the things that you were already working on that, it sort of can't be taught, like comedy, and timing, and things that you learn in improv, and perfect in improv. Perfect. David As best you can. Alicyn Improv is so imperfect. But, you know, do you feel that that helps, helped you later? David Most definitely. That's why I picked it. I was, the acting in animation, I had two choices myself in school, what to emphasize and with acting was character animation or storyboarding. And storyboarding seemed to involve a lot, a lot of things all at once, so does animation but in terms of storyboards, it's like it's a cinematography, editing, acting, writing even, staging, which might be the same as cinematography, and I just might be repeating myself, but there's a lot of things in storyboards and I like thinking of a lot of things at once. And I'm like, that's cool. This seems to be the job for that. And being able to write, you know, improv acting leads to being able to write well, I, I would, I always recommend improvisation to anyone who wants to do animation, I think it's, especially storyboarding, it's incredibly helpful. Alicyn Can you, for those of our viewers that might not be familiar, can you help describe the storyboard artists process in the animation pipe chain? David Totally. Um, okay. So it depends on what kind of show it is. Some shows are script-driven, meaning a script is written and you storyboard from a script. Some shows are storyboard-driven, where it's an outline given to you, basically, like kind of how a story is going to go, but not so much dialogue or anything. And you have to take that, interpret it, and create a cartoon from it, and write all the dialogue as a storyboard artist. So it's near the beginning of the whole pipeline. It's what after either a scripts written, or an outline is written, and usually an outline becomes a script, and storyboard-driven, we're getting the outline, and we're making the script within the board while drawing the cartoon. So it's like sometimes you're, you're writing before you draw, sometimes you're drawing and then you write, you know? It's like, oh, so he's gonna say something here. He's happy, Bugs Bunny is happy. Um, what would, you know, and later, I'm like, I'll come back to that. Let's see what, you know, whatever Bugs Bunny might say when he's happy. Alicyn It's funny, because you mentioned that as a kid, you like to draw Looney Tunes. And now you're currently, you're working on Looney Tunes. David Yeah, as I, got to work with them, it was a thing I did, I did four hard years with those Looney Tunes character. It's like, it was a, and then I went on parole. No, it was good. It was like going to like Acme University. It was like college. It was a good show. Alicyn Literally? David Yes, that was a thing. And we had to study them, you know, we, I mean, growing up, we watched, I watched them with my dad, I watched them with my sister. We loved them as a family. So that was in my head. But also while doing the shows I would, a lot of times, I would watch it over breakfast, I'd watch a couple of shorts and just sort of get the rhythm of them as much as I could in my head. Because, yeah, you still have to study while on the job, that never stops. Alicyn Would you say that was a dream come true for you? David Yeah, totally. Everything else is just going to be, it's gonna be downhill, uphill, whatever staying there after. It's just, it's all, it's never gonna compare. I've reached my peak, as they say. And now it's 6ime to slide down that mountain, on my butt. Alicyn Slow, slow, slow slip into insanity. David Yeah. Alicyn Well, with Looney Tunes that is a board-driven show. Is that right? David Yep, that one was board-driven. I did the two different shows. The first one was semi board-driven. It was a different kind of process where we all kind of boarded. Alicyn Wait, what was that? David That one was called New Looney Tunes. Also, the first season was wabbit, the second two seasons, the second and third season, it was New Looney Tunes. And that was, we all wrote together in a room, like there was an outline and some dialogue and such, but we kind of all storyboarded as a team in like a day. We did it on post-its, we just like would do this storyboard on. Alicyn Oh my god, this is my favorite post-its, by the way, the extra large ones. David These ones? Yeah. Funnily enough, if you get these, these are pretty much the exact aspect ratio of a TV screen. And like a widescreen HDTV screen. Yeah, totally. And if you go on here, you're getting the same format, you got it, so. Alicyn I can write for Looney Tunes. David That's it, you can do it. It's like you have, you get part of the story, I get part of the story. And you'd be drawing what it's gonna look like on these little post-its. And then putting at the end, we collect all our sections, like we have like, four hours to do it, put it up on a wall, and they're all in order. And then the showrunner, who's the head writer, and also the two other writers would go over and punch up the dialogue, and things we had written, and make it like, funnier, and then he'd pitch it at the end of the day. So it was like, it was like a whole day-long process to form the basic story. And then the service would take that cartoon, once it was all pitched and approved, back to their cube. And they'd scan all those drawings into, store it into the computer, and then draw over them, and do all the in betweens, and sort of like flossed it and things, and that was the process on that previous show. It was, it was a team doing it in a room that just then got handed off to a storyboard artists later, and then they would make the whole thing within Toon Boom storyboard pro, the program, and draw it all pretty like and stuff. Alicyn And so in the room, was that all board artists? Was it a mix of writers and board artists? David Good question. It was, it was writers and board artists to start the meeting, and then the board artists may be a revisionist, which I was. And also, I was doing like revision boards on that show a little bit. But sometimes boards artists. Alicyn You know what, David? Your audio is, is cutting out a little bit. Hey guys, take three. I think we've got it, figured it out this time. We're gonna re-invite David Shair to the stream. And thanks for everybody for standing by, hopefully we can get this issue solved. For anybody that was on the call a few months ago with Duane Capizzi, and we had some issues with the, an older iPhone. So I think that might be the issue. So David's going to join us again on his iPad. And if that's all good, we'll start right where we left off. David. David All right. Yay. Alicyn You even look clearer. David Oh, wonderful. That's awesome. Sorry about my phone. It's, it's a, it was created by cavemen. They use rudimentary tools to do it. So now we're on a fancy iPad Air two, I won on let's make a deal, by the way. Alicyn What? You won an iPad on let's make a deal? David Yeah. Alicyn What's that story? David Oh, I was dressed as Ken from Street Fighter two, but I had soccer boppers on my hand. Anyway, it seemed to have worked and they picked me as a contestant. So I just, I had to, I had to shadowbox Wayne Brady at one point but ended up winning. I picked curtain number two, and it was a good deal, so. Alicyn Really? Wow. So what else did you win, other than your iPad Air? David It was like a TV, and another, an iPad Mini, and a big like speaker system that was like is now way outdated, like a speaker thing, and then an Apple TV. So anyway, it was like an entertainment package. Alicyn Wow. How perfect. Thank you. Thank you universe. David Oh, yeah, that was sort of, it was very cool, and lucky. Alicyn I knew you were a winner the moment I met you. David Yeah. Oh, you got me totally wrong there, Alicyn. Alicyn I'm gonna try, I'm gonna edit, editing the audio. I want to take it back to, so you worked on the New Looney Tunes, which is originally rabbit, wabbit. Sorry. And then you worked in Looney Tunes shorts. David Looney Tunes cartoons, they're called. Alicyn Looney Tunes cartoons. And you, can you just give a quick recap of what the storyboard process is, like for that show? David Yeah, totally. Um, it was, basically, we'd have two of those beat boards in a week, we get the outline, we do a very rudimentary comic strip in like a week of it, and show it, present it, be it, do it with the voices, we do our, we pitch it with our voice, with our voice. Alicyn With your voices? David With our voice, doing the characters as well as we could. You're the pro at that. I just wish, I was just sitting and it it was Daffy or Sylvester I could spit and I knew that would be fine. And then it was a matter of going before puberty to get to Tweety and Bugs and such. So Eric Bauza's a very talented man to be able to do all those voices. And but anyway, we do that. And then if that all got approved, we'd usually punch up gags and things in the room after the beat board. And then after three or four weeks, that's where I draw it out, and do all the writing and then have to pitch it again to the entire crew. And do all the voices and everything. So you get to put on a show, which is something else a servitors gets to do they get to put on a show. So if you like that, that's a good thing. So that's my favorite part. Alicyn It seems like it's all, all your loves and passions are kind of coming together. David Yeah, yeah. No, totally. It really, it does. It seems to be the right job. Sometimes it works out. I don't know, I think if you, if you follow what you like to do, if you know, eventually you'll find something. It doesn't have to be the job though. This just happened to be the job. It could be the side, thing on the side that gives you the, you know, the joy and then now might end up becoming the job, you never know. So just follow your interests. Alicyn It's so interesting, because you actually started or when you, before you went to school for art. You were had a teaching fellowship at the Wildlife Conservatory Society. David Yeah, well, I was it's a, it's a fancy, fancy name for the Bronx Zoo in New York. So I, so they, they renamed it, the, yeah, the Wildlife Conservation. So I was, I went to ZooC amp as a kid. Alicyn Zoo Camp! David This was 8 to 12. Yeah, Zoo Camp. I know we all went there, you know, the old, that old thing I, and anyway I was, a camper there and you go stay go for a week. Each day you learn about animals from a different continent. And then at the end, you sleep over at the zoo. It's a fun thing, I went every summer. I loved it. Yeah. Then I was, became an intern. But then eventually I became a counselor, and that sort of like a teaching fellow at the zoo where I was the counselor, and I had to handle animals and show them to kids and teach them about wildlife conservation and habitat preservation. Alicyn And you were also part of the Marine Mammal Stranding t=Team. David Yeah, isn't that a, it's an interesting name? I never stranded a marine mammal once. I don't know what we're doing. We were just rescuing them. It made no sense to me. I was like, where's the stranding? Alicyn I signed up for stranding. David I was, stranding. It was like, you know, you dig a little, little sort of ditch in the sand and let them fall in. It was, everything was cool. It was, I was, it was, it was a great day and I was I went to school in Miami, so there's a lot of water and marine biology is pretty big there. So we were trying to you know rescue any sea creatures that would wash up on shore, now trainings wouldn't happen all the time. But it was something where you'd be prepared for it and sort of learn about also preserving the ocean, wildlife in the ocean. Alicyn That's cool. When I was in high school I volunteered at the New England Aquarium. David Oh. That's a good one. Alicyn It was an amazing experience. But I'm so, I'm so interested, this is interesting, because many of your credits, Baby Shark's Big Fishmas Special, you know, you work, you're working on Kamp Koral even. Stephen Hillenburg, the creator of SpongeBob, Kamp Koral is a spin off of the SpongeBob series, was a marine biologist. Do you think, Oh, and Fish hooks. David Yeah. Alicyn Do you think that your background in marine biology helped to get hired on these jobs? David I don't. You know what? It's a good question. I mean, it, because I think as you audition for these jobs, a lot of times you're auditioning as a boardartist, as you know, it's like you have to audition. We have to audition to do an art job. Alicyn You have to slate your name? David You kind of do, you're, you know, yeah, in a way, you'll do like a little cover page that said, Oh, yes, I did. You know, and I, I don't know why they want to know your height, makes no sense. But it's fine. But it's just a thing. I added a couple of inches, because that's what us guys do. But it was you know, you, I audition and basically, a lot of the times when I pass the auditions, it would be a show where I get to write as well as draw. I do better, for some reason, when I get to write and draw at the same time, don't know why. It just, you can make it your own a little bit more. And then I was, I remember Fish Hooks, I had to figure out a character that was a crab, this crab that didn't have a character assigned to them. And basically, they just gave me, he lived in a mansion. And so I was like, Okay, what would a crab in high school be like if he grew up in a mansion, that's what I thought, I focused on the word mansion. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna make him like sort of rich, spoiled, he seems to be a jerk based on how they want the story to go. So it's like a rich, spoiled jerk in a mansion, almost like Montana Max, you know, or something and, and just sort of did that. But I don't know, if maybe drawing, drawing the animals, drawing, drawing the fish, drawing a crab, knowing maybe how their bodies move, how they use it, animal behavior. It might have, you know, who knows, it might have slipped in there. That's the thing, it's like, you know, what, growing up with cats might have helped me with Sylvester. It's like, you know, you can do little jokes here and there that are familiar. Because the familiar is what I think you know, things that are true to real life can bring like a lot of humor. So if you experience a lot of life, I think naturally, you're going to be able to bring a lot of humor to whatever you're working in. So yeah, just experience things. I'd say. Alicyn I think, you know, working in children's animation, I'm sure you feel like this a lot. Like, it's kind of like that's, you know, that level of humor that it's like, super fun, and also just super accessible. I mean, having a five year old, I feel like, I feel like I'm always making him crack up. It's like the best part of my day. And I'm like, yeah, this is kind of, you know, like you said, I'm like, my humor might be peaking with my son, basically. David It's like, but you have this great audience, right? Like, you're smiling. And you're like, you know, if I just, if I can just make him laugh, like, it's totally worth it. It's just just one person. This is one special person, you know, but just it doesn't have to be a whole group of people. You know, just that one. And then it's like, that was you know, it's, it's wonderful. That's, that's great. Ah, you see your boy. I didn't see it's, it's been a long time. I want to get out to see it. That's, That's great. Alicyn Yeah, he's five now, it's so crazy. But yeah, we'll have to, we haven't checked out Kamp Koral yet, but want to and you know, we definitely want Looney Tunes and stuff, so. David Yeah, the Looney Tunes. Alicyn You posted some of the videos you did that were on YouTube to Instagram, I showed him those. David Wow, really? Did he like them? Alicyn Yeah. Oh yeah. David He didn't push the phone away? And was just like, nope, uh-uh. Alicyn Has he ever pushed the phone away? David I don't know. No? Okay, well, that's good. I'm glad, that's awesome. I love that. Yeah, there's some that actually ended up on YouTube. That's the first time that's happened to me. It might be the last, I don't know. I, the Looney Tunes cartoons seem to go to different places, which has been very cool. And there's some great fans also for it that are like reaching out and such. And, you know, it's, and that's really cool to see, you know, on Twitter and Instagram. It's like, we have social media now. That's very big. And then these cartoons are being released bit by bit. So it's, yeah, it's the first show that I worked on where I'm hearing from the fans almost in real time of them watching, and just watching, had just watched it, you know, or something. So, very cool, very cool. Yeah, they're on HBO Max, mostly. And then Kamp Koral, which I'm working on now is on Paramount plus, so you got to chase those streaming services to find them, but they're there. Alicyn Get em all. David Yeah. Alicyn What's it like, I mean, working on such a well known property, like Looney Tunes? David Um, oh, you know, it's been around a lot longer than we have. The characters, like, we're, we're working for them, is the way I was always thinking of it. It's like Bugs, you know, Bugs has been, he's been at this 80 years, much longer than any of us. So my job is just to basically give him a stage and let him do his thing. That was how I thought of these characters. It was, it was just you, you give them you're giving them the stage, their way, you know, whatever you can to make them, have them succeed, and let them do their thing. And that's where I just sort of try to listen to them. And, and, and as best I could. It's, it's odd, but I think that's how you do acting choices and things sometimes. Do you experience that, when you do voice auditions, like doing your, or doing jobs, like do you imagine? Alicyn What it looks like? David Yeah. Are you the character? Are you seeing everybody in front of you while you're doing it? You know? Alicyn Yes, yes. And sometimes it's like physicalizing, the action, like actually, if I'm stirring a pot, actually stirring the pot, actually looking up, you know, you want to try and stay on mic. But you really just need to have such a developed sense of imagination to be able to visualize so that you can put yourself in that situation. Promo Hey, guys, this is Alicyn Packard. Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to let you know that if you like the show, please, please, please remember to subscribe to this podcast. And leave us a review on iTunes. It really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. Alicyn But I thought it was interesting what you said about how like they're talking to you. Because, um, Elizabeth Gilbert, in her book, Big Magic, talks about how there's this collective consciousness of art and ideas that are just kind of out there. And we become channels for them to communicate to, and I really resonated with that. And I wondered if it was like that for you with Bugs, you know, Bugs kind of dictating, Hey kid. You know, write this down. David He tried to make me write just the dirtiest stuff. I mean, I had to sensor. I was like, No, you've been around a long time. You know, I know you're 80, you've had, you've lived your life where anything goes. But I'm like, sir, we need you know, we need to go back to when we have. But no, it was, it was like that, you know, it was, it was you'd hear, it was great. It was like, it was just you'd see, you, you'd have them it's like, you know, maybe that he's turning to you. And he's like, all right, what am I going to, what am I going to say here? And it's like, then it's just, now it's using that improv knowledge using that emotion within you and just sort of like, what, what is coming out like if I have this if he is excited. And now I'm Bugs and I'm being in character, which is that helped Groundlings improv helped a lot of characters, by the way. It just sort of like, I am Bugs. I am excited. You know, how am I going to, you know, like, oh, would you look at that, you know, like, Jeez. I don't know. Jeez, Louise. I don't know if he'd say that. It's like maybe he wouldn't say Jeez, Louise. So you try it again, you know? But if it's coming from a real emotional place, you should and you are being the character. It should, it should end up right. I feel like it should. It's in there somewhere. Alicyn It's very cool to hear you talk about it from your perspective because in a way, your job and my job we are the merging of one being that is the cartoon character you from the action side and, and us voice actors from the vocal side. So, you know, it would be really cool to have a show where you had those people in the same room like, you know, doing something like that is an interesting idea. David Totally. And you know, what, you you, as a voice actor, influence the drawings as well. Your performance because the storyboard revisionists, which is another job besides the storyboard artists goes in. Alicyn Like you did on Fish Hooks, right? David Yes, I was a storyboard revisionist most of my career. And so what I would end up doing is, after, even Fish Hooks was a storyboard driven show, the storyboard artists wrote the shows, the voices weren't done, when the storyboard artists did it, they were the ones writing the dialogue. So, once, then the voice actors would go in and record it. And then they make an animatic out of it, which is a storyboard played in time to sound and music and with the voices. So you basically see it, it's almost like an animation, but it's still frames, and you're seeing like, you know, I'm holding, I'm holding a cup here in this drawing, and then I'm there the next drawing and then I'm like, ah, and this drawing, so you're just seeing the still photos rather than the in betweens of animating it. So that's the storyboard animatic. So the revisionists, we get that, I would get that, the voice actors would be there. And sometimes a voice actor would bring like an awesome thing to it, they do something with their voice that was really funny, really amped up the story. And suddenly, the drawings weren't supporting that, they needed to be plus, the drawings needed to be strengthened, they needed to match the new, fabulous acting of the voice actor. So I would go in, I'd listen to the voice actor, try to interpret their emotion, what they're feeling in my head, but you know, in my thing, and then draw it, and draw the character doing that. Alicyn Cool. David You would influence the drawings for sure. Alicyn Very cool. Yeah. It's like in, when people are not working in the same room. But then we're all after the same goal, which is to create a character that is dynamic, and entertaining, and funny for many shows. David Totally. It is. And, you know, everyone can point, I remember reading in a book, it's like, that's my character and an animated show, because anyone could say that, that worked on it, you know, the storyboard artists, the character designer, the person who designed what they look like, the color stylists, a person that colored that character, the background or the, you know, the one who did the the stage for them, the voiceover actor, the writer, the, even, you know, the director, you know, they're there. It's basically you're all contributing to this. It's a giant team sport. We're all, we're on a giant team. If you like team sports animation, is it. You know, be a professional basketball player that, that you can do that too, I guess. Alicyn You know, I mean, if you get to choose, why not do both? David Sure. I bet, yeah, that has happened before, you know? So actually, yeah. Alicyn Door to door brush salesman, as you say. David Yeah. So Daffy has done that job. I know that, sell those brushes. Alicyn That's so interesting. So um, what has been some of your favorite characters to work on? David Oh, boy, that's a, it's, that's a great question. It's a, boy, you know, I liked Bea Goldfishberg on Fish Hooks because she was an actress, and that took herself way too seriously. And so I felt like I could bring something to that world, and I could have fun with the way she was posed, and the way she composed herself because she was an actor so she, she could go big and it was like oh it's a female character that can go big and crazy and you know, really needs to be reined, you know, reined back when she did and I love that and I loved the acting angle with her. So Bea Goldfishberg on Fish Hooks. And then, of course, you know. Alicyn Is this Kari's role? Is Kari Bea? David That, oh, shell, she did Shellsea. Alicyn Shellsea. Sorry, my bad. David Who is amazing. She's amazing as Shellsea, everyone should go and listen to her Shellsea, because it might be the funniest voice on the show. And that, and one of the funniest I've ever heard. And then this was, oh, gosh, I'm spacing on her name. She's a big Disney star and now I have lost someone probably knows that in the chat. Who did Bea? But she was so very nice. And I, for some reason, it is not hitting me at the moment, that will probably pop up later. But she's, she's she's very cool. She, and she has blonde hair, I remember. God. Alicyn Nearest down. Didn't find Bea yet. David Yes, please do. She did great as Bea and, by the way, just said Chelsea Kane, thank you. Thank you very much. I see, I see. Alicyn Chris. You deserve a prize. David Chelsea Kane is very, yes, she was awesome. She's awesome. And yeah, there was a lot of great voice on that show, too. So and then I would say, well, yeah, any of the Looney Tunes characters. Alicyn Do you have a favorite Looney Tunes character to voice? David That's a great, that's a great question, too. I mean, I always love Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner, and I got, I did get to do one of those. It's hasn't come out yet. I liked that, them. It was just always super funny to me. And it was mostly silent. But I'd say the character though, that I did feel a very akin to and did a lot of cartoons for was Daffy Duck. So he's my mom's favorite character. He was very funny, a little bit crazy. You could go lots of places with him. So Daffy was very good, for me in that respect, so yeah, but they all, they all have a thing. They all have something special. Like, and Tweety was very fun to draw for me. And also I recently got to do, I also got to do Pete Puma, and a cartoon, Pete Puma - Bugs Bunny cartoon just came out on HBO max, so. Alicyn Oh, wow. David That was cool. Alicyn So you can stream it now? David You can. Right now. You can do it right now. If you want, yeah. Alicyn You could do it while you're watching this. Why not? David Yeah, keep this, but keep this on. Keep this on on the side. Alicyn Yeah we don't need your full attention, just part. David No. Not the full. No, no. It's divided anyway, there's already two of us. It's like, where do you look? Alicyn Exactly. David But I look at mostly at Alicyn, that's probably the best one. Look at Alicyn. Alicyn For anybody that's just tuning in, this show is Alicyn's Wonderland. And it's a weekly interview show where we sit down with people that work in animation and video games. And we talk about what they do, and any kind of cool stories that they have. So if you like it, feel free to go ahead and follow me. And um, you can even get updates so that you get looped in every week. Today's guest is David Shair. And David says, Hey, David. David's a, hi. I can see the top of your head. Don't look at my fly. He is a storyboard artist. So we're talking all about that. If you guys have questions for David, go ahead and put them in the box below. We'll save a couple minutes at the end and try to get to any questions you might have about. David I see one about doing a Daffy Duck impression. I mean, the closest thing to doing a Daffy Duck impression would be that, that, that's kind of why I have to take a drink of water. Alicyn Oh, good. David It's like that's how I would pitch him. You know, it'd just be the fat thing. And it's like, Alright, Alright, fine. Okay, good. You know, it's not perfect, but it's, it's close. And, you know, that would pretty much be my way of like pitching Daffy Duck. He's fast and furious. He's causing chaos wherever he is. That's how we did it on the cartoons I've been on. He's a little less of the greedy Daffy, that's kind of, which I also, who I also love, and I also did bring into some of the cartoons, but we go a little bit more original, wacky Daffy with him. So it's kind of like, he's a fast talker. He's, you know, he's ready to go. He's like, Alright, let's, let's see this guy my way. Anyway, that was Daffy. Alicyn Yay. Now what about um, do you have any, how do you stay inspired? Not just this year, which has been challenging for many people, but just throughout your life, do you have hobbies or things you'd like to do to keep your inspiration up? David Yeah, well, I still do improv. I'm doing it over zoom, now. I do it once or twice a week. It's alright. It's like I'm getting, I've gotten more used to it. You know, you can't do as much space work where you're using your body and holding up objects and things and you know, changing the stage picture but there's other ways to do it using the camera you know, and stuff and sort of like and you know, changing it's like, oh, I'm back here, I'm doing you know, now I'm, Wow, I'm shouting at you, you know, far away now. So it's like, you know, and taking it, so it's a different way of doing it. It's been it's been all right though, I still have fun. My brain still gets activated by it. I've also been watching a lot of sitcoms, I love sitcoms. Those are pretty much what we're doing when we're making cartoons. We're doing sitcoms, so also watching a lot of sitcoms can help you. Just a little tip. You're, you want to think like with the way we cut the camera, is you're starting you know, you start with that master shot and then you're cutting in to things. You're cutting to a character's face here, character's face there, wide to the master shot, letting everyone know that you're still in that room, and just sort of looking at how sitcoms kind of choose their shot choices or other comedies is a great way to get better at storyboarding. Alicyn Very interesting. So when you were going through your training for art school, did you specifically study storyboarding? Or was that something you learned on the job? David That's a great question. I did emphasize in storyboarding at my art school. I went to the Academy of Art University in San Francisco. They had an animation major, but you could emphasize in certain things, and that was one of the reasons I chose that school, as well. I, I wanted to emphasize in storyboarding, and the thing was the classes were a little few and far between, there were some but not like a lot. So I did have to do a lot of some study on the side. And sort of like learn it from books and learn it from like, there's a Batman The Animated Series book, that's great that shows their storyboards for TV. And there's an Art of Animation book that was half Beauty and the Beast that shows some storyboards for feature. And then we just like people would have it in art school, like people, you know, like you grab stuff in their computer files, like they'd have some storyboards from Lady and the Tramp, they'd have some storyboards from, you know, you'd find some Turtles, and it's just sort of like you collect all this reference, and you're like, you start to get it, you know, you eventually start to get it. So, yeah, but always, always just being a student. That's, that's a great way to get good at storyboarding, learn, learn, and experience comedy, watch comedy shows, just even watching a show, you know? Alicyn This is such great advice for anybody looking to maybe get into storyboarding or a storyboard revision. Is there anything else that you recommend for somebody that maybe wants to follow a career path like you? David Yeah, well, I always, I always recommend improvisation. If you, you know, you don't have to go to art school, you definitely don't have to do that. You can do that. It's totally cool. But I'm saying if you, if you have, that's what I did, you know, and the great thing about that is you have other students that you're competing against, you're learning from, you're trying to get better, you know, that this person is really good. And now you have to, like I have to get better than them, you know, and sort of like now have like people to refer to, and you have great teachers that can, you know, have wisdom they could pass on to you. But if you do, if you don't quite have the money for art school, there's plenty of ways to take cheaper classes. The animation union has classes, if you're, if you happen to be here in Los Angeles, the, you can do classes online. I'd say you can do classes in your hometown, I'd say the best fastest ways to learn to draw the human figure, do figure drawings, nudes, it's you know, it's going to be a bit different to start, but you'll get used to it. They all become shadows, eventually they all became shapes. It's just like, you know, the human just a circle on top of a column on top of a torso shape, you know, that old shape? Alicyn Mine's probably a square. David Yours is a square? That's what happens. You also notice people's they're like, wow, I like it's an oval, or Yeah, there's some people yeah, it's a square. It's you know, it's strong. It's like, yeah, then you're like, that's great. That's it, you know. A square is a design. That's a, and then you learn, you know, but I'd say and then eventually, you put clothes on them, you know, and then, but you need to do the nude stuff first, because you got to know what the clothes are going on to. And then eventually, it's weird, the more you do it, the better you get. I was just doing a thing where I remember in art school just drawing, couldn't draw a nose, couldn't draw a nose. His face has a nose. I'm drawing something there. It doesn't quite look like a nose. One day, nose, a nose is there and I had to like I like sit back my paper. I was like, what is this wizard magic that happened? Alicyn Wow. David One of those things where it's like, you keep trying. Eventually these little discoveries happen, these little improvements, and it's very, it is crazy. And so just keep drawing. And if you can't do it, figure them out in class, draw. Have a sketchbook, draw your family, draw a story, you know, like draw someone at the park walking a dog, what's their story? What is their, figure out their character, study them, do a gesture, you know, do a quick drawing and just keep, keep drawing people, keep drawing animals. And then if you can get, if you can master the human figure, you'll be able to get animals, you'll be able to get backgrounds, you'll be able to get props, you'll be able to get anything. Just so yeah, that's that's sort of my advice. Also watch movies and TV, to do storyboards, because you're going to need, you're going to, and learn, learn comedy, learn comedy as best as you can. There is also action. There is action boarding. I don't do that as much, as well. Definitely not. Alicyn How does that differ? David That's different. That's more like, you want to think like Avengers or Marvel shows, Spider Man, stuff like Batman. That's like stuff where the action, there's fights that you know, there could be also fights in comedy, but it's mostly going to be comedy, there could be action in comedy, there can also be comedy with an action, but the majority of the show will be one or the other. And they tend to, you tend to either be a comedy board artists are an action borders, or if you're in feature, well, they might, you might not necessarily have a specialty, but this is more of a TV, in the TV realm. Alicyn Interesting. And so what about the future for you? The future of your career. Is there any particular avenue you would like to get into? David Back to the future. Yes. Right back to it. Well, I mean, you know, sometimes storyboard artists can become directors. I mean, maybe someday that, that could be a thing that would, that could be cool. You know, you're managing people all of a sudden. So perhaps. Alicyn Animation director, which differs from like, the voice of a director, correct? David Yes, correct. Definitely. Alicyn Want to explain what an animation director does for us? David Oh, boy. Well, it's uh, yeah, it's like you're overseeing all the storyboard artists, but basically a bunch of shows all at the same time. So you're going to be coming in at all the different processes basically, like approving designs, approving the color, approving what, David you know, but mostly, like, you know, going over the storyboard, handing out assignments to revisionists, maybe handing out, you know, suggesting gags to the board artists, being there for the writing, you're there kind of like shepherding an episode all the way from infancy with the script or the outline all the way to the, when it ships to go get animated, other places. So that's what a director does, you're, you know, and again, there's some skills there that you have to pick up, you know? I would not know, the first thing about if this color looks good. But I would rely on the art director for that. And basically, you know, being like, you know, and then hopefully learn some things as you go. You can't, you can't expect to know everything, some people do. They're superstars. So, but, yeah, so that's, that's kind of what a director does, I guess, in my best guess. I mean, sometimes they could give suggestions to voice actors. But mostly, it's that record director who are, who are very cool. They're, they're, the ones that I've met are awesome. And also voice by the way, voiceover actors are probably the nicest people I meet. There's a lot of nice people in animation, but you guys are definitely some of the nicest. So, yeah. Alicyn And are there some storyboard artists that you look up to or really are inspired by their work? David Totally. Um, yeah, I mean, when I was in art school, I was looking again, I had that Beauty and the Beast book. So the three people that were described in that were were Roger Allers, Brenda Chapman, and Chris Sanders, who you might know some of those names yourself. They went on to direct like Brave, and Lilo and Stitch, just they ended up making some great Disney films and contributing to the ones that, to a bunch others that I love as well. So that's where I was like, Okay, I, those were, they were great. I love looking at their stuff. And then, you know, as I got into, yeah, I remember in the Batman animated book was Ronnie del Carmen's boards, I would look at it. I think he's now, I think he's at Pixar. And I would also look at, my co-workers, are, can be as inspiring as anything like, you know, in Looney Tunes cartoons, we were in a, there were ten storyboard artists, were all in a room together. We were in cubes, but in this one room together, and we'd be shouting, we'd be joking with each other. So you can see each other's drawings, we're doing gags that we didn't have, we didn't quite have an idea for a gag, we would ask all the other board artists in the room, like, you know, give me a list of things that you know, you find at a restaurant and it's like, all of a sudden you got a brainstorming session going on or like, What would Daffy do here that would be funny. And so, you know, and then you'd also see their boards, get pitched and you'd be like, gosh, I want to draw as well as you know, Mike Gruaca, or Andrew Dickman, you know, someday like what are they doing to make these characters look so good, like oh, I'm gonna steal that, you know, like, I'm gonna steal that from them like or I like the way Ron can draws, constructing shapes and you know, and makes the characters really easy to look and nice to look at like, how do I, what is he doing differently, you know? So on the job there's a lot of inspiration there. Alicyn Wow, cool. Well, it looks like we can go and see if we have a question. David Yeah, totally. And since I had some you know, delay I, you know, with the technical difficulties there, I have no problem going over, if you need. Alicyn Awe. Thank you. ActorMurry asks, what was the hardest thing that you had to write? David Oh, Um, hmm. Let's see, that's a, that's a very good question. The hardest thing I had to write well, I know the easy, I know that one of the ones that came for some reason easier to me was Pete Puma, who's an incredibly dumb character. So I, that's probably why it came very, like more easy to me. I, for some reason I can access dumb much easier than a smart character. Um, it just sort of naturally comes to me. And, but I'm thinking of like, hardest one to write. I mean, definitely, that first episode I ever did on Fish Hooks was a challenge. Because I was interpreting a show I didn't quite know. It was a newer show. And I was trying to figure out an 11 minute episode going from no, having no job ever to doing 11 minute episode for Disney, then writing and drawing it. So it was like, What is this, the whole thing. By the way, it had to be almost completely redone, by the time I was done. But I showed enough like, I think Oomf, where it was like, Okay, this guy could maybe, he could be a revisionist on the show and learn the ropes, you know, but that was probably the most challenging and later, later, I could see like, oh, like, if I look at it now, I'd be like, Oh, that's what I, now I know, that's what I should have done. And you'll learn as you go, you know, you know, but I was thankful for that graciousness. Alicyn Well, if you guys have any more questions, put them in the box down there. Because Dave, also, do you mind? Just doing a quick little highlight for my Ig stories? Can you just say your name and what you do and then say, you know, something positive about the show. People should watch it or whatever. David Okay, yes, that, yeah, totally. Um, Hi, my name is David Shair. I'm a storyboard artist for animation. And you should all watch Alicyn's Wonderland. Because my goodness, it's just fun every week, it's just a little hour there that you can just enjoy yourself. And just lay back, relax and let her take you where she wants to take you. Alicyn That's great. I love that. And where are we going? We're just, we're going down a rabbit hole for sure. We have another question that has come in. What was your favorite moment of becoming a storyboard writer? David So, thank you very much for the, for the question. I would say it is when I did get to do the old Looney Tunes cartoons. And that, that second show because of how much I could kind of make a cartoon short my own. I could bring in a lot of humor that I seem to find funny. And like stuff that was more like I don't know, my, my like speed, my you know, stuff from real life and bringing it in there. I just, I was excited. If you watch those Looney Tunes cartoons, they're all going to be different look at the board artists and put on the the card and the credits of who boarded it. And they also wrote it. Look at that, and then see, you'll see that there's about 10 different board artists on that show. Each cartoon, the cartoons will be very aligned with that particular board artists and their sense senses of humor. We had people that were overseeing it. Alex Kerman, and Peter Browngardt. were awesome. They let us run free. And they, they contributed, and art directors mine was Kenny Pittenger. They bounce ideas off of them and and it became, of course, a team sport. But you will see that the storyboard artist-writer did have a good amount of influence in there. And so the cartoons do end up pretty unique in that respect. So I'd say that was my most proud, was being able to be like, you know, get in some jokes that like may never have appeared in a Looney Tunes cartoon that like I really would be like, Oh, that's a Yeah, that's something I would say. It's just now, now, Pete Puma's saying it's like, All right, see, that's I don't think it gets better than that. Alicyn But now, how, what percentage of Looney Tunes I mean, I don't even know how many hundreds of hours of viewing time that entire series since 80 years with Bugs Bunny started. How, what percentage of Looney Tunes do you think you've watched? David Oh, that I've watched and oh, gosh, I don't know. There's probably you know, there's a lot out there. There is a quite a bit. I mean, I think I've definitely gone over 50% though, I think I have it. And you know, we just made 1000 minutes like this Looney Tunes cartoons is 1000 minutes of cartoons. So they've released it, three batches so far. So we probably have about six to seven more batches to go because they release about 100-110 minutes each time of the 1000 on HBO max. So that's, that's really, you know, that's something, that's like. Alicyn That's a lot. That's substantial. Ah, well, we have one more question. Let's see. This is this is pretty cool. Hunter asks, Can you draw a picture of Queen Alicyn maybe? David Oh, okay. Let's see if I could do like a quick. Alright, so. Alicyn Wow. Well, while you're doing that, let me say and if you couldn't be a storyboard artist, is there another career you would want to do? David Oh, um, yeah, you know, I mean, I, again, I did love working with animals, but I would get too jumpy around them. It was, it was weird. Alicyn Really? You're like the anxious zookeeper. David Yeah, like the, yeah, totally. It's like, Oh, my God, it moved. I still love 'em but it was like, I remember that time, it was like, Oh, yeah, this is, you know, it's something where not everybody can do this job. And, but I do love working with animals. And I and I, wildlife conservation is a passion of mine. And so I would say, if, if like, there was a way that I could help in terms of wildlife conservation through whatever means I could, that would be a great thing. Oh, also, if I could write on Mystery Science Theater 3000. That would be another wonderful job. That's just sort of a pipe dream. And it's not a, you know, it's, it's a yeah, it's sort of like a bit, but it would be yeah, that would be a lovely job to have, which is, also I think, you know, there's a lot of things that influence your humor, you know, and how you, I think, operate as in comedy, and I think a lot of what you liked, influenced you. And so I would say, Mystery Science Theater 3000 definitely had an influence on me. Sitcoms had an influence on me. Looney Tunes cartoons, Disney movies, but I would say yeah, there's certain things you can point to, Three's Company. Alicyn Sure, yeah. Best of all time. David Yeah, totally. And very simple. Like, I loved it. When I was like, four or five, I could understand what was happening. You know, he's lying. He's trying to hide the kitten. He doesn't want him to find out. It was very, like, you know, I think I made your hair too dark. And well, I. Alicyn Is it colored? David Oh, no, I, it's pen. But I, Oh, boy, did I give you a chin. I'm gonna show him that. Alicyn I do you have quite the chin. It's kind of like a little witchy chin. David I'm like, I'm not the character designer. That is it. But here's the thing I, here this is Alicyn. Oh, my gosh, is on the top. She's talking to herself. Alicyn Hi, Ali. David Do you have any questions for yourself, Alicyn? Alicyn Yes, um, how do you get to book these amazing guests like David? David I don't know, you just, you know, sometimes you just gotta like, call them up. And they're always available. Always check the available ones. Alicyn A global pandemic helps with availability, you know? Yes. Going out again, it, the show may go down. Well, thank you for the masterpiece. And David, thank you so much for your time. It has been such a pleasure to talk, being a storyboard artists with you and get to hear all about your career and your life. And we're so excited. Keep us posted on when the next Looney Tunes drops, and I'm happy to share them. David Totally. Thanks, Alicyn. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it was great talking to you. Yeah, let's talk, let's talk again soon. Please. Alicyn Thank God for the iPad 2, we totally pulled through on that. David Oh yeah. thank you. Good, good call. I know, now I know what to use for the future as well. This is this is actually. Alicyn For anybody that is tuning in. This is Alicyn's Wonderland. Go ahead and follow if you are interested in catching more of these. Yeah, we have a whole bunch of guests lined up. I'm actually going to post the full post of who's coming up with in the next couple weeks Ryan Crago, who created the show Arlo the, the movie, Arlo, the Alligator Boy for Netflix. It's fantastic. And the upcoming series for that. We have Terri Douglas, who is a loop group coordinator and has probably voiced more animated movies than you could imagine. And she's been in so many different things. Yeah, so go ahead and check it out. Oh, that's great news, Peyton and thank you guys so much. Send me a DM if you have any questions. Okay. Take care. Bye, guys. David Bye. Alicyn Thanks, David. Bye. Outro Thanks for tuning in to Alicyn's Wonderland, where we explore the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. Please remember to subscribe and leave us a review. For more episodes of Alicyn's Wonderland please visit us at www.AlicynPackard.com. See you next week.