Ryan Crego - Creator of "Arlo the Alligator Boy" | AW12

Have you ever thought of leaving your home for the hustle and bustle of the big city in search of the truth? Then you are just like a certain alligator boy I stumbled upon on Netflix. Yes, I’m talking about Arlo, the Alligator Boy. If you’ve watched this musical masterpiece, you know why I needed to book this week’s guest.

This week’s guest is none other than Arlo’s creator, Ryan Crego. Ryan is an amazing artist and an incredible songwriter, as he proves so with Arlo. He started his journey through the world of animation by working on, probably, a more familiar name, Shrek. With Arlo being in the making for over 11 years, you know Ryan’s got a lot to tell. 

Show Notes:

[4:48] Ryan’s childhood experiences and how they helped him realize his love for animation.

[22:03] Ryan on Arlo, the Alligator Boy.

[29:29] Arlo, the Alligator Boy, 11 years in the making.

[35:08] Ryan as a father, and how having children changed his perspective on creating animated movies.

[43:32] Behind the scenes on the creation of the Netflix musical.

[51:54] Q&A with Ryan during the live IgTV.


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Twitter: @Alicyn 

Transcript :

Intro Welcome to Alicyn's Wonderland. I'm your host, Alicyn Packard. Join us as we journey through the looking glass and down the rabbit hole into the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. Hey, do a girl a favor, and please subscribe to this podcast and go on iTunes and leave us a good review. If you like the show, please help spread the word. It really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. Alicyn Hey guys, Happy Wonderland Wednesday. You're tuning in to Alicyn's Wonderland, and I am your host, your fearless host, Alicyn. I'm really excited about the show tonight. Thank you guys to everybody that's tuning in live. Hey, Lee. Hey, guys. Hey, Chris. It's good to see you. Thanks for tuning in live you guys. It really just makes the show so much more fun when you can be here live. Yes, Ryan is here you guys. Ryan Crego is our guest today, and it's very exciting. I have been looking forward to this for so long. Ryan Crego is the creator of Arlo, the Alligator Boy, a fairly new animated musical on Netflix. And, man, this show is so magic. It's, if you haven't seen it yet. I definitely definitely recommend it. It's well, without further ado, let's go ahead and introduce Ryan, and we can talk about it with him. So hi, guys. Thanks for everybody who's tuning in live. Yay. Let's invite Ryan, okay? Okay, welcome to Alicyn's Wonderland, Ryan. How are you today? Hi. Ryan Hi, how's it going? Alicyn It's going good. How's it going with you? Ryan It's going, going, it's going. It's going well. Alicyn Your hair is getting long. It looks nice. Ryan Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's, you know, the movies out and now just, everything kind of slows down. So the last couple weeks, it's been, it's been cool. It's been, you know, strange. And now that, you know, you anticipate something happening, coming out, and then all sudden, it's, now it's here. And then I'm like, Okay, now I like it. Alicyn Lightly chill, or? Ryan Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good. It's hard, I don't relax easily. So, you know, I've always want to be like working and doing I'm just that kind of person. So, so I go up and down. I'm like, you know, some days, I'm like, I need to be like, cranking and then some days. I'm like, this is really nice. I've got nothing to do, so, and a little bit of mix of both. But yeah, all good. All good. Alicyn Well, because, because so Arlo, the Alligator Boy, which is the animated musical on Netflix. But you also have a series coming out as well, I heart Arlo. So where are you at in production with that? Ryan We, I let the cat out of the bag yesterday, that we did our final mix yesterday. So that's basically done. I mean, we're, we don't have, I'll say, we don't have a release date yet. So I can't say when that's, when that is, not only because I don't know, I mean, I like have an idea. But like, I don't actually know. Already, it's been two minutes, I'm already not, not telling the truth. No, but for reals, I have, we, I think we have a, like, a target area. But like, I but so but, but just for you know, it gets dubbed in 36 languages, so, you know, we're we're like we did our mix on the final mix, and then it's gonna be a while, so. But yeah, we're like in the can on that thing. So yeah. Alicyn How many episodes is the first season? Ryan It's, it's always complicated when I say this, it's 18 elevens and a 22-minute finale. So it's basically like a 20, 20 episode order of 11 minutes. And then we, kind of, we just smashed the last two together. I've done a lot of board-driven, it's board-driven, which for a lot of people who are watching, if you don't know, it's we allow our board artists to write and to come up with gags, and we get them outlines instead of scripts. So they're driving the stories on each episode. And it's not unlike you know, SpongeBob or Adventure Time or a lot of the great, really fun, quirky funny shows so, so it's board-driven. And so, but for the last one we scripted because we thought like I've done it a few times where we've tried to like cram board-driven into a longer format. And then I was like, this time we're going to script it. Just made a little script, and then we'll get crazy with it after. So yeah, so it's about a 22-minute finale. The finale is a musical. It's got four songs, four full songs in it, and it's really cool. Alicyn So is the whole series musical? Are there songs in each one? Ryan Yeah, throughout, and not every single episode, I think, I would say we wrote probably 16-ish songs for like, whatever the 20 episodes or 19 episodes. So like close. It's close. There's a couple that don't have songs. Yeah. Alicyn That's so exciting. Ryan Yeah. Alicyn Well, let's start. I'm curious, because I want to start at the very beginning. I just, how you I mean, you've worked as a storyboard artist, writer, director, songwriter, musician, you've worked in so many, you've had your hands on pretty much every part of the animation world. And I'm just wondering, how did you get your start? You from Northern California, is that right? Ryan Yup, yeah. I'm from the Bay Area. And I grew up in Silicon Valley. So very tech industry area, but not like when I was a kid, it was very, it was like the beginning of tech, you know, I mean, it was a strange, cool, I didn't realize at the time like, what, what a weird place it would be to grow up because you're just like, you know, anytime you're a kid you don't have, you don't have any reference, point of reference for your life. Like, yeah, it's totally normal. like everyone's parents work in computer companies. And like, yeah, Apple computers is the thing and like, but like, then going back in history, it's like, no Apple computers, like started in a garage, a couple blocks from my house. And like, it's just the whole thing. Like, when you go like that changed the world in so many ways. And all that was happening out of this place, right? Like at the time that I was born. Very, like orchards were getting taken down and, and tech companies were being built up. And so it felt normal at the time. Now, in retrospect, I'm like, what a trip. But it's really boring. I thought it was really boring. I was always doing art. I was always playing music, I was playing in bands. I was like, we just felt like very, it's very suburban. And there was nothing to do and no culture, it felt like at the time, like San Francisco was, you know, maybe 40 minutes away. But when you're young, you don't really have access to the city that way. So I always felt like it was a really, like a real dead zone for art and culture. And then San Jose was like, I always picture San Jose kind of was like the closest big hub of the city. But it was always to me like Kenny G, you know? Soft jazz all day. So you just like, that wasn't where I felt like I grew up. So I was always like, trying to get out like in my own mind and try to push out instead of like weird places with friends. I grew up with a lot of artists, we're always pushing each other. The first band that was in was called a Pedestrians of Death and Destruction. Alicyn So, smooth jazz? Ryan Yeah, yeah, they were cool. The good guys, harder, harder sounding than they were like, we were all really nice kids. But yeah, and then I played with bands that were like I got into like ska, and like funk, and all kinds of stuff. I, you know, as I got older and more stuff that was like, like this, the bands that, got more serious as I was getting out of college and stuff, we're more along the lines of like Wilco-ish, you know, like all, all country, and folk, and stuff. So I've been all over the gamut with, with music. And I had kind of put it down like, I just over the last 10 years hadn't really played a lot of music. I haven't been playing in bands and stuff, really focused on my animation career. And Alex Geringas who I set-up on this on this thing. Hey, Alex, if you're still there, really, like as we started working on Arlo, he was a big inspiration for me, and like getting me kind of back in the saddle, getting me back into writing music. I didn't plan on writing the music for this, I planned on sort of, I felt like I had so many hats to wear already. Because it wa, we're a small production, that kind of, you know, "little engine that could" kind of production. So I felt like, already I was in the process of writing it and, and directing it, and producing it. And then Alex was like, you have to write the songs too. And it's like, okay, so we did it, it worked. I mean, I was very happy, it really ignited something in me that I hadn't, you know, felt in a long time. So that was really, you know, cool. Alicyn It's crazy, you say that, because I feel that in the movie, I very much feel that it's just so special in terms of the way you brought so much heart to the story, but also the music, it feels like an extension of that. And you know, this story, and we're just, it's, it's definitely been on repeat here at our house. And, you know, been talking to a lot of people, not just Debi, but a lot of people in this community that just love the project. So, I think, you know, staying true to that voice definitely struck a chord for so much of your audience. Ryan Yeah, yeah, you gotta, you got to find that and I'm, and I'm still finding myself every time I get into a project, you know? I think I, like I, I felt very comfortable. So back to the career, you know, I was a board artist early on in my career at DreamWorks doing features, and I found a home with the Shrek group. And I was really like, I mean, I was kind of like a class clown, there were a lot of class clowns, everyone's a class clown on Shrek. But I felt like that's where I kind of fit in the most. I found my voice, I was like, Okay, I can make fun of things. I can like push comedy. I'm not an extremely like, you know, diligent draftsman artist, I'm much more of a cartoonist, and it felt like that was a place where I could to do that, and then I worked on a lot of features and it was really cool. But I always felt like I just came from a very like comedy, you know? Like I was the punch-up comedy person, not really like a big story or emotional story person than that. But even though I felt those feelings I just that was not my, my sort of place and in as a board artist, because borders are kind of cast in certain ways and not because I, maybe I just didn't have the skills like to really dial in, you know, that real acting, even though like you could feel that, it's like to draw it into or to draw action scenes, like the understanding of perspective and all of the things you need camera, all that stuff. So things that have kind of come later. So I feel like that's where sort of my home base was, for a long time, long time was just comedy. And now getting into Arlo, it's like, making a movie, you can't just, you know, like I could, you could just do like crazy, ridiculous comedy, but like, then I think you're cheating the audience from having emotional, you know, beautiful emotional moments too, so that's been kind of a new thing for me is like, trying to just, you know, like, this movie was a big discovery process, you know? Of like, well now, what's my voice? I know what my voice was as a board artists. Now what's my voice as like a truly like original storyteller? And so that's been an interesting piece of the puzzle to fit together. Alicyn Yeah, and the comedy's definitely woven in there to keep, you know, it's, it's a great mix of family comedy, you know? Rverybody's laughing on the couch. It's not just the kids. Ryan Yeah, yeah, I remember I told, I had an executive, one of the executives who brought me into Netflix, and who is very familiar with me and my, and my work, and we got into our first screening, and it was just the first act. So if you, you know, like, basically up to Arlo leaves the swamp. And I was like, Oh, I should probably like talk to, like, so just so you know, like, the first act isn't really funny. Like, there's not a lot of jokes. Like, I know, you guys are expecting it to be really funny, but like, probably brought, you know, like that, like, Hey, this is the kind of like, I'm like, it'll be funny, but in my mind, we had to like really tame down the first, even though there's like the crazy Edmée song and there's some moments, I was like, but it couldn't be like wall-to-wall because if you just wall the wall and then all sudden you meet Furlecia, and then you meet all these other great, you know, yeah, we're gonna, our audience is gonna, their heads are gonna fall off by, you know, midway through the movie and not finish it. So, so that was a funny thing, where I just all of a sudden realized I was meant to screen something to people who had expectations that were not like, but it all worked out. I mean, they loved it. I think maybe it was just in my own head. I felt like I needed to say it. But yeah, Alicyn You're like, Okay, the heart balance is heavy on the heart. Ryan Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that first act. I love Edmée and Arlo, I think that movie, not to say the movie was, I love the movie, but like, that movie of just Edmée and Arlo in the swamp like with nice, peaceful, sweet, all this background were so beautiful. Like that would be, you know, like, I could live there for 60 minutes. Alicyn It's pretty cool. Ryan Yeah, exactly. Alicyn Yeah, it's funny, because I think the very first time I watched the movie, I came, my son was watching it. And I came in halfway through, and then watch the first third at the like, later. Oh, just so touched by that location, it was so rich and detailed. Did the locations in the film have a special meaning to you? Ryan New York for sure. I, so I unfortunately had like, kind of planned to visit a lot of these places and to do that, like during the process, and COVID hit and that was like, you know totally derailed, but the like the idea of walking into a big city and seeing new york the way that he sees it, is very much, I've been very you know, I love that city. I'm very passionate about it. You know, I think it's just the big cities I love like and again, it kind of probably goes back to when I was a kid feeling like I'm just in the middle of, you know, even though I was in, now you're like, oh, there's so much happening. But even though there was stuff happening, it just felt like I was so like there was nothing happening. And when you get to a big city, you're like, Oh my god, this is amazing. And I feel that way about New York and so there's so much to experience and to discover every time I go I feel like I'm you know you can go there a billion times and never see everything so I love that. North Carolina I visited when I was a kid and tried to capture some of that, and kind of like had had mapped out the journey so like when I was writing with Clay Senechal, who was the, my scripting partner on on the screenplay. I had mapped out that journey. And so, I was like, this is where he's going, I kind of like written the outline and, and the pitch. And it's a long, it, we'll probably talk about it, but it had been it's a story, it's been around for like 11 years. And so I had already like mapped out the journey and then we were kind of writing based on like trying to try to find like real locations, real like that Willow Button City is actually based on, and I totally forget the name, I have to think of it, like just outside of New Orleans. There was like a small town that I found that was like so cute. And I was like, Oh, this is perfect. This kind of feels like trapped in time, like couple antique stores, and you know what I mean> And so I tried to find like real reference for the for those things. Yeah. Alicyn Oh, yes. When they, with the car and everything., Ryan Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bradley Aloysius and Sandra June. Alicyn That's so interesting. Ryan Yeah. Alicyn And so did you know, you know, as you were like, playing in bands, and coming out of, you went to USC, right? Ryan No, UC Santa Barbara. Alicyn UC Santa Barbara, okay. So then, did you know you wanted to get an animation when you started? Ryan Yeah. No, not when I started. So, well, so when I was really young, I always said I was like, if you asked me, you know, I've got like, somewhere I found when I was unpacking my house because we moved recently, like when I was like in elementary school, like my dream job was to be an animator at Disney. Like that was like if you said what are you going to be when you grew up. I'm going to be an animator at Disney. That was just thing I was and I was always one of those kids who just thought like, Yeah, that's good, that will happen. So if I believe that, that will happen that there was nothing, you know, I didn't, I didn't feel like, you know, I just felt like you'd always be like, I was just focused like that would that would work. Then I got older and I thought I was gonna get into I still wanted to make movies but I was doing like video production and stuff in high school, and I really kind of thought like, maybe I would be doing like action movies, like cool stuff, you know? Dudes and guns and you know, just like gratuitous whatever. Like just crazy like what we used to shoot like war movies and like, a creep behind her, you know, and, and so that was probably like, when I got out of when I when I got out of high school going into the film program at Santa Barbara. I was like, Yeah, I think I'll probably end up doing like action movies, like cool shit, you know, sorry for kids who might be watching. But then I took an animation class in my first year and I was like, Oh my god, this is what I love. Like, stop being an idiot. Just realize that you know, like, when I came back full, it was like, all this, you know, love, and I, luckily, the professor who was like in charge of all the production at UC Santa Barbara was an animation, he was in the first class of animation from USC. So he knew like just a lot. He was like, he had gone to school with like, John Lasseter went to USC, but he knew, like, he knew all those guys like, he was, he was kind of in the contemporary of like that, that era of the animators and stuff. So he was an awesome resource. And we started, I took every animation course I could take and then we did independent studies, and he got me an office and I made films, I made stop motion movies I did hand drawn, so I had kind of created my own. By the time I got to my sophomore year, I had like, exhausted all of the animation courses, because there were like three at UC Santa Barbara. Alicyn So it wasn't a major, it was just you building your own thing? Wow. Ryan Yeah. And I was so, I graduated with a film studies degree and all of my extra curricular and all my, what do they call them? Electives, or whatever, you know, like in classes, like more basically independent studies where I had an old like 1970s or 1960s bolex camera and rigged with a animation motor. And we built, we built a dolly off of a Xerox machine that we cranked with a bicycle crank. Like, you know. Alicyn For the kids that don't know what a Xerox is. Ryan Yeah, I know. We're getting old. But so we did it that way. And it was cool. And like, one of my buddies who I made movies with in school, he was a little bit older. He's now, he's now kind of running the, all the marketing animation for Pixar. He was an animator at Pixar for a long time. And he just kind of was a big inspiration for me and getting like I was like, well, he did it. You know, like, he was maybe like, maybe a year or two older than me. And he was like, yeah, I'm getting a job at this new place. called Pixar. Oh, that sounds neat. What do they do? So then he, he's now he's got this like, sweet gig where he's doing like, like, the Luca posters and all that stuff. All those like cool, he does like all the like keyframe animation poses. He's in total, he's, he's a rad dude. Yeah. So, so it was a very small program. It was like me and him. Alicyn Wow, I'd love to pick his brain. That's so interesting. And so because do you think you've got more opportunity to try different things? Since it was a smaller program? Ryan Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, it really gave me my own sort of, I was the film studies program, the studies of it all is basically you're analyzing film and you're analyzing like, you're studying like Eisenstein, and like all these like crazy, like film theorists and stuff. And you're watching like most of it, they call weird joke, because they call it classic Hollywood cinema. Like, it's a bad thing. It's like a bad word. Like we called CHC. And they'd be like, CHC does this, but like independent art films, you know? And I was like, but how are we going to make money? So and we always, like, I was like, This is crazy. But it was, it was good. Because it, you know, just opened up my mind until this, like, you know, the theory of like, why you would do something and all the choices you make when you're making a movie, and how important that is that would love to sit in on those classes again, because, they're so mind expanding. But when I got out of school, then you've got all these people who went to Cal Arts because I was like, Oh, I'm going to be, I want to get into animation. Like, do I leave UC school or go to Cal Arts? What do I do now? And I just decided to stay, you know, finish up my degree. And then I was going to go snowboard for a year and then I was going to either go back to school or like, you know, or get into, you know, the business or do some I don't know. So I was like, so I left. Alicyn You had a gap-year before it's even cool. Ryan Yeah. Yeah, I just needed, I went, well I always I love the mountains and, and I was like so I'm just gonna do that. And then I'll figure it out. And so slowly worked my way back to LA. And then I had applied, like every animation studio, and of course, nothing, you know, crickets, and I got into like, doing really random motion graphics work. Alicyn Oh, really? Ryan Yeah. And it was interesting. It was what, what? I don't want to get too deep into it. But it was when poker shows were really big when poker was still legal online, and like people were spending big money and they were doing all these like, you remember, like for a while, like it didn't matter what channel you turned on, it was like a poker tournament. So I was doing that I was doing all the card graphics when they slide in and all the percentages and all that stuff like somewhere that was me in room with you know, Photoshop and keyframing all that junk. And then I got a call one day and it was like, Hey, this is DreamWorks, you know, do you want to come in for, or do you, like, is it you know, can we it set up a phone interview? That's what it was a phone interview. And I was like, Yeah, oh my god, I started like crying. I was like, Oh, my grandmother was just I applied, but a year, it was a year, it was like a full year. And they're like, yeah, we kept your application around, and we just, you know, production assistance. I was like, This is crazy. So I interviewed for over a month, I had kind of given up on getting the job. And then what I found out later, was that two different shows wanted me and I just, you know, they were trying to work it all out, and turn out ended with the Shrek group. And the rest is kind of history because that, those all the really cool board artists, people like, you know, while Doron who directed the trolls movies, and Peter Ramsay and Bob persichetti, who directed Spider-verse, and like, all these superhero, you know, artists were there. Dave Smith, like all these crazy people, they were just all there. And I had access to all of them. That was mostly shooting their storyboards and sending them to the editor, but I got to see every, you know, frame of the movie and storyboard form, and then just started the process and learn how to do it. And, and that's where I kind of how I came out into, into boarding, so, yeah, so, but I thought it gave me a good perspective, because most people that did go to Cal Arts, like, you know, they're so well trained, they have so much like, I still wish I had the training, I still wish I could, I could, you know, in theory, you could like, take a break for a couple years and go to those classes and get that knowledge I would still that would still be so useful to me. But at the same time, I felt like I was also coming from such a different place. That maybe that worked my advantage because, you know, I was just a you know, wildcard kind of person rather than a crew. Yeah. Alicyn Well, if, Yeah, exactly. if everybody's cut from the same cloth, and then you come from piece of fabric, it's. Ryan Yeah, so yeah he guy who doesn't know anything. Yeah, exactly. I can, like be all day, all day. Alicyn Yeah. So Arla, the alligator boy, it's just such a beautifully crafted movie. And the music is so catchy. Did you always know you wanted to write a musical? Ryan Yeah. Yeah, it was always a musical. And I think I had worked in some shows that had music like, they were, had musical moments, but I had never made a musical. And so that was a really big process, educational process for me, and like learning, you know, trying to figure out like, and I still don't think I've learned it. I just think that I've, I that I was joking. If you've watched any interview, I probably said every time but like, I googled like, how do you make a musical? Because I was like, Oh, god, they're, they're gonna make it. We're gonna make a musical. What do you do? You know, like, what is that, what are the things? I'm a big fan of like research anyways? Like, I always, I think it's very important to, you know, see what people say you don't have to follow it. what's what's out there? Find it out. And so I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And I and we definitely, like did not follow a traditional path for for like, what a musical would be because I think if you look at like the Disney musicals, there's probably like, four or five songs, like true songs. If you look at Broadway, it's like wall-to-wall. You know what I mean, like, it's not entirely but like, so we're somewhere in there, in between, I think we got like 24 minutes of music of songs within a, you know, 90 minute movie. So it's a fair amount. But it definitely became the thing that was driving the movie forward were those songs, because as we started to as Alex and I started to write, we were writing the songs at the same time, we were writing the script. And we had about four songs. We then turned in like six songs before we got greenlit, but I think we had like four songs like Beyond these Walls, More, More, More, an early version of Wash the Hurt Away, which changed pretty dramatically. And there was one more that stuck around, and I can't remember, but but we had kind of, like, you know, a grasp on, on the handful of songs that we knew were beyond these walls was the one that was like, Okay, this is where we go, like, this is the, this is the movie. Yeah, it was, we had written a number of songs. And then when we kind of uncovered that one, that was where we went like, okay, now we've got something that's like, set, the bar is up here, like, this is where the bar is. So now every song has to like we're reaching for this, try to make it as good as Beyond These Walls, because that song was really good. And so that really drove the movie. And then we also in our first screening, which was like a very, you know, we crammed to get all the boards together and threw it all together with like, too, too many editors, you know, just like we have to get a screening together so we can see what we're making, and then we'll all understand it, and then we can get back to work in a more clear way, which I think is really healthy. I think it's really good. Like I think a lot of people are afraid to put a screening up and, and because they're afraid of what executives are going to say or think or whatever. Netflix has been very like, they're so open and encouraging that I didn't feel any pressure from the executives. I didn't feel like we were gonna have like a bad screening. I just thought we needed to have a screening, so we can put it up and we can talk about it. And the songs were what really carry that first screening. It was like, oh, that this is where we go, like this. And so then we wrote a lot more songs and then you know, Better Life came into play and we did the whole collage moment before, Wash the Hurt Away, and then Something's missing was a very late addition. So we just really started, like, leaning on the music to tell the story as much as we could. Alicyn Yeah, it's really, you know, it makes it so magical how it all comes together. It's so interesting to hear the behind the scenes of all of it. And, you know, you're a singer as well. Were you also singing in those bands in high school, or? Ryan Yeah, yeah. Mostly. I mean, not, let's see, no, I guess I was I was almost Yeah, I was, I was mostly a singer. And then later in my later, I was more of a guitar player that did backups in some bands. And then they had other bands. I was like, lead singer. And, but and I'm not a great singer, and I know it, but I like it. But I like the feeling of it, you know? And I think, you know, I'd like to think there's an artistic way to deliver vocals without having to be like, because when you know, I am, I don't know, it's I you work with people like Michael J Woodard. And you're like, this is like, this is a singer. You know, this is a singer. And for me, it's like I've always loved the feeling of putting you know your heart and your energy into a song and like and delivering it because I think it goes into like a very, like the probably sound wherever, like that spiritual, maybe spiritual, just they get it, you get it like a weird, you know, there's like a weird plane of the world, or the universe that you can get into when you're playing music that you can't access. And I think and I've, I really loved that feeling. And I think I feel it the most when I'm playing guitar and singing at the same time, because I'm completely cannot control anything else other than, you know, there's just too many things happening. And then you're just in a weird space in your head. Alicyn Yeah, 100%. I mean, when you were struggling, struggling for the word spiritual, that's like what popped in my mind and like, Elizabeth Gilbert's idea behind Big Magic that there's like, this collective consciousness of ideas, and you know, do you just want to be the first to pluck it out or, you know, Pixar's movie this year, where they have, they go into the zone, and yeah. Ryan That movie, really, I did not see that movie until recently. And it's not because I didn't want to, I just like I thought, I was like, I have a young daughter, and we watched a lot of stuff. I just should find time to watch movies and all that, all that, you know? And now that I've got time now the movies done, I sat down and watched it, and I was like, Oh my god, oh my god, that might be like, it really touched me. I was like, holy crap. That's something like that's so sad. And then it really inspired me. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I need like, I need to get it together. Like this is insane, you know? And, and like you said, there's just, it just gets you like, from an artistic level, it gets you from a human level. Like, if you can, if you can tap into that, you know? So yeah. Yeah, that's, like, totally, I get it. Alicyn I want to give everybody some love that's on the stream. Because we're repurposing the video as an audio podcast. I'm not as able to address each comment as it comes in. But I want you to know that guys that I'm definitely hearing and thanks, Debbie. And thanks, Jeffrey, and everybody's. Ryan What's up Debbie? Alicyn Debbie, it's so good to see you. A lot of people saying that they love the soundtrack. Oh, wow, Ryan HD, thank you. Alicyn Watches in Japanese. So thank you guys for tuning in. We do have a little button at the bottom with a question mark, if you have questions for Ryan, we'll save a couple minutes at the very end of the interview for some questions. So you can go ahead and type them in there. But you know, we were talking about the inspiration with Soul which gave me all the feels, but Arlo, I mean, I think for a lot of us, like low key obsessed with this movie. My son and I, we sing the song, he's five. And we are always singing the songs, and I'm working on a cover. Like, you know, just like a total fan cuz it just really moves and inspires me and I find that the more excited I get about stuff, the more I get out of a project and watching it and taking it in. So it's been really cool to watch. So I know I saw a little bit of your cut your interview with Debbie where you were saying that Arlo was like 11 years in the making? And so I was curious, did it start with just that little guy or was it the story? What was the? Ryan Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was really from sketches like from you know, one of sketches I started doing just, you know, I was like I'm one of those people that I work late at night, I don't know if there's any boarders on here, I saw Tristan on here but like everyone's got their, everyone's got their sort of methods and like for me as I, when I was tired now, I don't do it so much. Now I've had to train myself to work during the day. Because, you know, kids and all that stuff and also being, you know, managing other people, but back when I could, I was very much like a late night like I would stay up all night, and draw and like get into a groove, and like put music on, put headphones on and just be, you know, cranking and then you would kind of find myself like, stepping out just to do other other sketches and whatever drawing constantly. And this alligator boy kind of came out of that. And actually, I mentioned Walt Dohrn and who directed Trolls was, like, early on, I was like, Hey, what do you think about like this guy is you know, so we started, he even did some early drawing too, and like we would talk about it and and so a lot of the early kind of conceptual stuff came out of the idea of like the circus sideshow that's like the alligator boy and then birdie who's you know, the, like, whatever's 13 feet tall. Kind of extreme versions of these are like, what if the posters came to life was kind of like the initial concept. You'll see those like crazy posters, the pumpkin boy or whatever with the pumpkin head. And that's a lot of that stuff. And I don't talk about it too much. Because like, I think in the end it was, the more research I did and the more like in touch I got with like the idea of circus sideshows, the more I felt like it was not a positive space, you know what I mean? And like yet, Arlo is a very positive character. And so like, it just became like, it stopped being like, that wasn't what the story was about, and then trying to tell a story that like where you're, you're kind of defending something that is not a good you know, like all these things kind of it just became like a very, became a very complex for me and and I wanted to you know, acknowledge it and and the more I tried to acknowledge it, the more difficult the storytelling became and all that so, I was like, Look, it's, it thematically will carry all of the things that that story has and still be about the same, you know, like you can see easily like with seaside by the seashore, kind of having a Coney Island-esque feeling, but not be exactly that just because I don't want to you know, even I went to like Coney Island and like the reach I was there like that with like the Coney Island nonprofit, like group, and I think that what they do is cool. But still, you know, there's, there's a history that's not happening right now that was happening. I don't want to, I don't want to be, you know, I don't want to deliver negativity to people, I want to deliver positive. But so anyways, all of that, that's kind of the initial idea. So like, I've talked about a little bit how like, that was an early version when I was like, 20, something. And then how many years later, seven, maybe or eight years later, I'm looking for a project to develop, and my wife was the one who was like, you really should, you know, bring Arlo. Like, that's such a good project. And I really loved that, you know? And so that's when I took a different lens to the project and tried to figure out like, Is there still a way to tell the story? Is there a way to do it and like a really, you know, sweet and positive way? Because it was always about this character was always like, really ultra positive in the boards and or the drawings I had done. And I was like, I'd love that. Like, he felt vulnerable. You want to like him, but he's got all these sharp teeth. So like, if he walks into, you know what I mean? Like, like, he walks into a place and he's like, but he's, but he's not bad. It's like Edward Scissorhands kind of feeling. You know, we're so clearly, you're so clearly like, Oh, that's, yeah, everyone's gonna be a little bit like these. But so yeah, just anyway, so my wife really helped me kind of like get back on the Arlo train, and like, dust it off, and then take a new swing at it and a new approach, and when I did, I found that I really found a lot of love for the characters and for the project, and was able to bring it to Netflix and pitch a series and a movie at the same time. And they were, like, excited about that, which is crazy. And so we just, I felt like I just, you know, I don't know, it's like, I felt like I just like I was like, Oh my god, are they really doing this and like, if they are like, I need to run this, I need to grab this thing, like and just run and not let it until you know, I mean, like, when I run with the ball, like I'm gonna get there, I'm just gonna finish it and like, don't, you know, like, get, like, get as far as I can, before someone realizes I, like, they made a huge mistake and they hired the wrong person. And this like, shouldn't happen, so. Alicyn I'm not sure if you meant, run in the other direction. Ryan No, run with it, like as I was, like, Oh my god, really? Okay, I need to do this now. So I, you know, I feel like one of those, you know, just in life, when you're given an opportunity, you have to take advantage of it and to the full extent you can and, you know, I gave everything that I could to this movie within the confines of my own, like, you know, personal abilities, and I put my, you know, my family is my priority, always. But then beyond that, like, you know, everything that I could give to this movie when it's when I can, and even, even then I mean, I involved my daughter and she's in the movie and she was always like watching, she was in the studio with me and Alex when we were recording Michael and my wife was always around and stuff so we're not you know, it's not like I don't just turn off the Arlo and go do that in the corner somewhere like it's very, we're very much a family operation. But yeah, Promo Hey guys, this is Alicyn Packard. Sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to let you know that if you like the show, Please, please, please remember to subscribe to this podcast and leave us a review on iTunes. It really helps us to get heard by more people. Thanks so much. Alicyn Something I was gonna ask you because I know, you know working in animation then you have, you're around children, you're doing content for children but then when you become a parent, everything just shifts and you're, for me at least I was so much more able to get into the mindset of, of what kids, what entertains kids and the joy and the freedom in that play. So what, your daughter's pretty young, right? Three? Ryan Yeah, she's like three and a half. She's like three and a half. So she was actually born the day that I got the the go ahead from Netflix that they were going to develop it. So which was, so they were like, okay, that the deals happening? Like I had, they told me they were going to like, you know, but it was like, okay, we actually have a like, deal in hand. And I remember very clearly, I have a very lovely lawyer. I don't use like agents, right? I'm not like, I don't know, that Hollywood, but I do have a wonderful lawyer who's like a grandma. And she's been in the industry forever. And she's always like telling me like Ryan, you know, she's, she was Steve Hillenburg's lawyer. So I have absolute love for her. Like she's, you know, anyways, great. And she goes, you need to go quit your job. And I was like, What? And she's like, you need to do it today. And I was like, but my wife is in labor. And she and so I was with my wife and she was like, it's okay. We hadn't gone to the hospital yet. Because like, it's okay, so I dropped her off at the Galleria in Glendale. And she went and bought baby clothes while I was in an executives office saying like, well, I got a movie at Netflix. And I'm gonna have to put in my notice and it was like the craziest day of my life. I'll never forget it. So I always mark Arlo. Alicyn So your wife was like, physically in labor, like in labor? Ryan Yeah, she was like in Zara at the Galleria buying baby clothes. Hopefully she's not watching right now because she'll be like, when I come downstairs, she's like, why are you telling that story? Buying baby clothes and having contractions while I'm in an office like couple blocks away quiting my job. So I, but I always mark, I was, so I, Arlo is exactly as old like that, at least the production of Netflix, is exactly as old as my daughter. Yeah. Alicyn That is amazing. Ryan To the day, to the day. It's exactly that old. Alicyn What the universe was just like you're expanding in so many ways. Ryan I know it was a crazy, it was a crazy, like, week, I guess. And then yeah. Alicyn Yeah. They always say baby's bring bread. And also more, I guess. Ryan Yeah, we got another one on the way. So I feel like it's, that's September. So I should have a deal coming first that new project and september, I want to do like you cannot tell me yes until whenever the day is September, whatever that's on. Right now? It's the 16th, I think. Alicyn That's my sister's birthday. Ryan Yeah, my dad's a 10th. And he's a very cool, dude. He's very mellow. I'm hoping for you know, my daughter is very chill. But you know, when you get the chill one, you're like, oh, there's got to be a crazy one somewhere. It's gonna be you know. Alicyn I can't think about what a chill child is like, because my child is not chill. Ryan Yeah, I mean, I used chill with, like, within the confines of just like other kids I see, where I'm like, Whoa, we're good. Alicyn So then, but three and a half. Wait. So that's like, it only took you guys three years to make this entire movie? Ryan Yeah, we went lightspeed. We, it's a, it's very much, I look at it as like, a, an independent movie. Even though Netflix is obviously a huge company. It's very much like an indie movie, we operated at a TV pace, rather than a feature pace, we got a little bit of leeway. I pushed, you know, for as much as like, as long as I could, but also to make sure that I was being responsible, you know, because I want to keep working in the industry. And I feel like, you know, you don't want to just blow a budget on your first movie and be like, Oh, sorry, I didn't know what we were doing. I felt, Alicyn It was cool, right? Ryan Yeah, right? I hope it was good. So we really, we really went, and I would say and hopefully, you know, the other people that worked on it would feel the same. We made decisions, we stuck to them. We didn't like, I didn't want to burn out my artists, I wasn't trying to do like features worth of work, like or at least a feature schedules worth of work in the time of the schedule that we had. So I made, made that my my goal was like, I'm going to make decisions and I'm going to, like take responsibility for those decisions and accountability for those decisions and, like, make the best movie we can make in that timeframe without like, ruining people's lives because I didn't want people to work, you know, I don't want people there overnight. I didn't want people like, you know, it happens. I've worked in the industry a lot where you get onto projects and the schedules never meet the expectations of what the studio has for them or like whatever. So, I always feel like that, you know, is a can be curbed from a management from an from an executive producer standpoint if you know what you're doing and some, you know, we had a very, very happy group of people working on the, on the crew very positive, a lot of Arlos on the crew. And, and so yeah, so we just cranked and then we cranked out the movie really quickly. And then we've made adjustments one time. And then a lot of people rolled off onto the series, and I kept like, maybe three artists on board for a couple more months and myself boarding at times, and then and just finishing it up and trying to make the best movie we could with the time we had, so. Alicyn And now take a vacation. Ryan Yeah, yeah, I'm taking a vacation next week, I'll be gone. But I think that, I think I wouldn't do it differently. I think, you know, like, we could have done more with, you know, you can always do more with more time and more resources. But like, I think that we captured the spirit of what this was, and I have been thinking about it for a long time obviously it's been, you know, thinking about it for 11 years, I don't know what, I don't know how much better I think things kind of like, you know, start to, the ability to make something that much better, like exponentially better after a certain point, like doesn't, it doesn't work, you know, I mean, like it doesn't you like you can stay on a project for another year, and maybe get like another 10% better, you know, and I've seen that in movies where you'll work you'll, you'll put up a really great screening, and then you spend another two years just kind of tinkering and changing and they why did we do that? Like, it gets, a movie gets better, but it doesn't get like that much better. You know? Alicyn And then by the end, you're like, Okay, I'm so sick of this movie. Ryan Yeah. And you're like, yeah, and then that screening, remember that screening we have, like, a year ago was so funny, or whatever. So you kind of capture that lightning in a bottle a little bit, I think, you know, yeah, so I'm very, like, I think in the end, we did something really cool. And I think it has, and Titmouse has a lot to do with that too, like, allowing us to come into their studio or allowing me to come into their studio, and making everything there because we had Titmouse animation in Hollywood and Vancouver, all of the artists were actually Titmouse employees. So I came from Netflix, and I know Chris and Ben Kalina and Tony and Shannon from working on a previous project. And I called up Chris, I was like, I think of this thing, I want to do 2D, I want to do feature, and I don't know if we can do it, you know? Like, can we do something like, how far can we get into feature level, and we got pretty darn far. I mean, we're like really, like, got really I was so impressed with like, I did not expect that the end of the day to be with the amount of time we had with the amount of resources we had that, that studio like they pulled out all the stops, like they put so much heart into it, those animators crushed it, some of them just gave us total gold. I mean, there's so much beautiful acting in this movie. And so like a lot of people feel very passionately about the story and about the you know, what we were doing, I think everyone who worked on it that I came across was like very much, they got like, why it was an important story to tell and how, you know, special it could be if we did it right. And some people put a lot of extra love into it. So yeah, yeah, it was cool. It was like really interesting, you know, I don't think I could ever make another movie, or I don't think I ever will make another movie like this. Because I, now I've broken that experience of directing my first movie, and I don't know what the, you know, that you'll change things and do things differently. But also the fact that we just kind of went in not knowing what we were doing on so many levels, like, Can we make a feature at a base that I mean, I don't want to call them as a TV studio, because they're not, they're, you know, an animation studio that can do a lot of things, but like, we really had to kind of create a pipeline to make this work. And then how is that gonna, you know, can we do that? And what's that look like? And how do we do it? And it was pretty, it was pretty crazy. Alicyn And the songs I mean, the songs are so amazing. How did that process with Alex? So you guys were developing the songs even before pitching? Ryan Yeah, I told Alex around the time, because we worked together on Home Adventures with Tip & Oh, and I had told him around the time that I was pitching it out about the story. And he was like, Oh my god, I love that. And I was like, Well, good, because you're going to do it. He should do it. He's like, yeah, I want to do that. So we had already decided like it before I even, before Netflix. And I pitched, I pitched it to two studios. And but before that, like I had already kind of decided that Alex would write the music for it. And he just was so passionate about this process of the project and all that stuff. So we had talked a lot about it before we actually got into doing it. And then when it happened, we started writing music kind of right away, like right at the time I was, I was writing the outline. So I started breaking off like, I would go to his studio, like two days a week. And then I would be writing scripts, like three days a week or whatever. Alicyn Like eight-hour days or you know, would you be in there just like? Ryan Yeah, we're like Alex and I, we drink a lot of coffee. It's weird. We do a lot of like, a lot of our day at the studio is like watching clips of movies and listening to other songs and like taking walks and then like and then all of a sudden we're like in the middle of something and then it just like four or five hours will pass and we're like, come out of the studio like whoa, okay we have a song, where, we don't force the process and a lot of times we make stuff that's like, fine, good, not great. You know, like, we're this, like, we'll be like, Okay, and then we'll come back the next session and be like, yeah, that's fine. What if we did this with something different so so we have a lot of like a graveyard full of songs right now that, you know, probably won't do anything. Sometimes something might feel right. And sometimes we have done it we the, Something's Missing actually was one of the first songs we wrote for Arlo and it was meant to be Beyond These Walls. And then we abandoned it because it wasn't feeling right. And then Alex put it in the score when Arlo and Edmée are sitting at the table, and she's telling you about the, she shows him the bracelet, gives him the bracelet that if you listen back in the movie that Something's Missing, is playing there. And it's a banjo version of it. So he had kind of broken out that the theme from Something's Missing, and we had, the initial version had like Banjo and slide and was much more like kind of, you know, rootsy and then like brush drums and stuff like so. It was he'd kind of borrowed some instruments from the very, very first version. So then when I got to the end, and we were like, looking for a song for Arlo and Ansel for that moment, because it felt like the discussion wasn't working. And I was like, Yeah, they just need to sing it. Like he sings when he's feeling something really extreme. And that seems like the way to do it. And then maybe we can kind of have a duet, but not a true duet. Because they're not, they're not in sync with each other yet. So they're kind of singing against each other. And I just went back into like, all of the songs because I kept like, a track list of like, every all the discarded things and just started listening through to see if there were any ideas to borrow from. And then Something's Missing hit me. And I was like, yeah, and he, and he borrowed that score, from that moment when he gets the bracelet, and that kind of feels appropriate. So that was like weirdly, like kind of coincidental that, that, you know, when he gets the bracelet and learns that he's got a dad, that it's actually the song that he sings later, it makes that like, it makes it makes us seem like we're really smart. It was more just like, in retrospect, I was like, that's a good and hey look at that, it works, too. So then we rewrote that and yeah, yeah. And you know, Vincent Rodriguez is insanely, he gives me goosebumps on that song. Alicyn How did you find Vincent? Was that, was he always someone you had in mind, or? Ryan No, he auditioned in a pretty traditional way. That role was tricky, because I think a lot of people wanted to play this, like upper crust, kind of hoity toity. And then they made, it made him very unlikable in a way that I think, if Ansel was too unlikable, you couldn't root for Arlo to want. Alicyn I mean, he did put his kid in the gutter. Ryan Don't think too hard about that. He is confused. But yeah, basically, it felt that like that character had to be likable in order for the movie to carry any kind of, you know, because you couldn't root for Arlo to really love someone who was just, like really likable. And I think the very first take like when we did scram, and the first screening that was that was the case. And it was like, this Ansel is really hard to crack. And so we had kind of, you know, the casting on that one took a while. And then Vincent came along, and he's got such a lovable, warm, presence and voice. And I felt really bad like going, by the way you're playing a jerk, but we'll redeem you, and you'll be cool in the series, but you're gonna be a jerk. And it's like, it's so not him. Because he's such a, I don't know if you've ever met the guy, but like, he is just the total, like, you know, ray of sunshine, as Michael J. Woodard it is, and Mary too. They're just all like very bright, positive, warm people. And so it was really funny to be like, okay, here you go. You're kind of a villain. But you're not like, totally, but you are, but his voice is insane. I mean, his voice is just, he's got all of that polish, that is, that comes with a theatrical like musical theater background that is really, he can, he's so, his voice is so present. And then Michael has all of this finesse and sort of, you know, soulful kind of runs and all that stuff. And so I thought the two of them together, I thought their voices worked really well together. Alicyn Yeah, it really is amazing, because that is the common thread, is this real light of positivity that, in a way, was almost a blessing, the timing of the release, because so many people needed that, at that time. Ryan Yeah, I was very, I was very happy to be putting something positive into the world. You know, as I always hoped to. And I think like as I, as I think about developing new projects, sometimes I find myself going into places where I'm like, that's a cool story. But like, Is it too, what's, where's the hope? Where's the, where's the love? You know, there's so much like, you know, cool junk out there, but like, I think that's what makes Arlo really special is that is, you know, it's, it's complex and there's some, you know, there's some negativity, it doesn't say the world is perfect. But Arlo is so full of joy and hope and so and positivity and the songs are bright and it looks beautiful, and it's fun and like the characters are celebrating each other and lifting each other up. And at the end of the day, like I think it leaves you with a very warm feeling. And so I was very happy that like, during what has been such a, you know, trying couple of years to kind of have something that we, you know, obviously started well before a pandemic and all that stuff, but like, just to have something that that really stood out as being a positive, you know, a big a big plus for people and for kids in particular. I think kids got really, you know, a bad deal on this, on this thing. You know, like, it's like I think, it's obviously, it's coming back. And you know, people are, it's getting better, but I just, I think about like the lack of freedom for children and the, the idea that they have to put on masks to go to school and all that stuff, like can't see their friends. And, you know, like they need positive, as much positivity, as much fun and joy as they can get. So that's all good. I was like, good. I'm, we're doing something cool here. At a good time in the world to be doing. Yeah. Alicyn And you have that like that crossover, where there's like the kid, that shows your kids want to watch and the shows you want your kids to watch? Where like, intersection where it's like, oh, yes. Like, not only do I want you to watch this, I'll sit down and watch you, watch this with you. Ryan Oh, yeah, that was that was the hope that was the hope. I mean, I think, you know, I have, and I think part of it kind of goes back to like, just coming out of that, like Shrek you know, kind of feeling like we, I think Shrek has always been such a great marker in animation for you know, yeah, it's, it's not the most like, you know, compelling heart felt whatever, but it, but it does do this thing where it really brings an adult vibe into children's, you know, into a family setting where there's, there's a lot of like, you know, there's, there's, there's just a lot for, a lot for families, for families of like for all ages to enjoy and to get and I was hope that like we would do something like that with Arlo. It's obviously not Shrek, but that it would have that feeling that you could sit down on Saturday night and watch it with your kids and get something you know, as an adult and still enjoy it and be like that was, that's cool. The songs are good. And like, you know, there's some funny stuff and Jonathan Van Ness, I love from Queer Eye, you know what I mean? Like all those things where you'd be like this fun. Alicyn Like, wait, I recognize that voice. That's so fun. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. And I know we have a couple questions. Are you okay with taking questions? Ryan Yeah. Alicyn Great. And for anybody that's just tuning in that isn't familiar with this show. This is called Alicyn's Wonderland. And it is a weekly IgTV show and podcast where we interview people that work in animation and video games. So if there is a special guest that you would like to see, send me a message, and I'll see what I can do. Okay, let's see. Well, Debbie has a question about whether we watched Soul with our kids and whether the movie's kid-friendly. Ryan I did not. I want to, and I'm not sure. I'm like, I'm on the fence about it. Like I really want to, and I think, I think she gets, I think she would get it. Like we we've had, you know, a number of conversations about death and things like that. Like, I think we you know, we don't shy away from it. We talk about everything, but like, but I don't know, like, I don't know, I don't because I think because the last thing I want to do is like put some you know, like one of these days, for sure. There's like, there's like talking about it, and like having an awareness. And then there's a day where they're like, I can't sleep. Like I don't know if I want to cross that bridge. And I, but I think I want to, I think I think she would get a kick out of like the cat and Alexa. But, yeah. Alicyn Yeah. So Bodhi, my son, we crossed that bridge sort of early on in the pandemic by something I had said, which I think, so he'd already crossed that bridge. And so we spent a lot of time talking about dying and death and what happens and different theories of what people happen. So it was good to watch Soul and be like, this is one artist's interpretation of that. So I think where he's at, at five, if he was three, it might be different because it, he hasn't necessarily thought too much about that and formulated his own. So we did watch it together. And he's, he likes spooky, scary. He's not like me as a kid that was like, frightened by everything. But so he was on it. So I think it really depends on the kid, I guess. Where they're at. Ryan Yeah. Hi Stephorazo, Stephorazo is an amazing artist for anyone who wants it, go check out her stuff, go do it. Alicyn Hey, Steph, thanks for tuning in. Okay. So Iowetristan asks if you wrote songs for the feature and the series at the same time, or did you wrap up the feature and then go into the series? Ryan We wrapped the feature and started getting to the series, it was actually really hard. It was getting started on the series music was very difficult for me because I felt like not entirely tapped out, but it was happening. We wrote the first couple songs before the pandemic, but a lot of it happened during, and that was an experience but because we wrote literally over zoom, like we would Alex would turn on his speakers and there was makes it like we'd write over zoom and I'd be sending guitar things back and then vocal ideas, but there was a lot of, you know, mailing tracks to each other. We were writing, they kind of came after, but one of the things we did was the very first song for the series, which won't be the first song that you see when you watch it because we we made it out of order. And it's called Community Garden. We took a song that I loved that was meant to be the finale song, it was going to be Beautiful Together is what what that became. And it was a song that I just absolutely loved. And it just felt less, like Beautiful Together has a very anthemic, kind of powerful, you know, emotional guttural feeling where this was just like a really fun song. The other one was like, much more like just a fun dance party song. And so but I always loved that song. And then we got and there was like, Oh, my God, like I felt like we'd done, felt like climbed a mountain. And then someone went down. And there's another mountain for you to climb right there. And it's gonna happen every week. You have to write a song every week for the next. Whatever it was, 20 weeks, or whatever, you know, I guess it was like, so I was like, Oh, no, we're like, we're doomed. And so the first song we just took, we took a song that we had already written and rewrote the lyrics. And it was, it's amazing. It's still one of the best songs on this series. It was a good repurposing of a song that was really good anyways, so it wasn't like we just, it wasn't like we put something junky in and just went like this will work. Like it just happened to be, but it gave us a really good feeling of like, okay, we can do this. And also, then just the group got going for the series. We just kind of turned on that. Yeah, yeah. Alicyn Yeah. You're building on that, you know, Okay, cool. All right. Yeah, we can do this. Okay. Ryan Yeah, that was a challenging thing. But the series, writing music for the series was very challenging. And I think we have a lot of really great stuff. But writing music for the movie, I was there, you know, I was, had written the movie, and it was writing the songs and was directing the movie, and I was, so they're all the time in my brain. And then the movie was still going on. And we and I was, you know, overseeing the series and then writing the songs just took, because sometimes a song happens in an hour. And sometimes the song takes days. And so it was, it felt like a very crazy amount of pressure during a period where I was already under a lot of pressure. So yeah, that was tricky. But in the end, I think the series songs in some ways are, if not as entertaining I think a lot of people that I've talked to that are on the inside Mary Lambert being one of them, Bertie, like the series songs more than the movie, which is crazy. So I'll let you guys make up your own decisions when you get to hear them. But yeah, Alicyn Will they release the series songs to, for streaming as well as Spotify? Ryan I hope so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the answer off the top of my head. Like we haven't we don't have I'll say that. It hasn't been like set in stone yet. But I hope so. I mean, I think it would be, it would be advantageous, I think, I think what's, what my hope was always that like people would, what your family is doing, Alicyn, which is like you watch the movie, and then you kind of live through the music, and then you return to the movie again. And that's how we kind of operate in our house. We listen to a lot of music a lot of mostly, you know, we listen to a lot of Disney musicals and things and that keeps it alive. So my hope was always that, that would do that. So I don't know that we've found that something I need to kind of, now that we're kind of at that point because I don't know when the series is for release, we have a little time to figure it out. But yeah, that's the hope. Alicyn That'd be great. Ryan Yeah. Alicyn Do you have a lot of fans that covering the songs on YouTube and whatnot? Ryan We see it from time to time, Tristan and Debbie who are both on here have, have put forth amazing versions that have I think when we did, we did this CTN Expo and Tristan covered Oh gosh, that was the hard way what might follow me home. Like I was, I was actually at the beach. When I heard it, it was crazy and I was like crying with my wife. Like we're like, oh my god, she's like, have you seen this? Because Alex found it. Someone posted it. And it was so weird because we were like at the beach listening to Tristan's version of Follow Me Home, and I was like oh my god, this is crazy. People are actually like, not only like listening to the music, but like turning it into something that they feel. Yeah. Alicyn Being inspired by it. And you guys, send me those covers. I would love to share them here if you have them svailable on Instagram. It's funny. I was just going to go to a question from Tristan and I'm assuming this is the same Tristan, which song on Arlo was the most personal for you to write? Ryan Oh, I guess Beyond these Walls, although Wash the Hurt Away, I think, was probably the most me in a lot of ways, like when I go into my own songwriting, like of my life and my past. But beyond these walls, I think was one that was such a kind of special moment when we, it felt like a very, we wrote, I wrote the first version of Beyond these Walls, I wrote on on guitar and recorded it and I hadn't played in a long time, and I hadn't recorded anything in a long time. And so it was very hard for me to like, feel comfortable recording that and then taking it to Alex and being like, I have a song. And I think I played it for him once and I was like, I don't want to do it. And I was like playing. And that was like, just I felt very, like shy. And like, I was like, I just didn't have the confidence because it's been so long. It's like, it's been almost 10 years since I'd really like written and played a song. And then we made that version together. And then we've kind of produced it like one more time. We did, like, usually we'll do like a demo. And then we kind of, like another level of production. And then I was like that's not it. And Alex, I think felt the same. He was like, Oh, I was hoping you were gonna say that. I was like, Yeah, but I was like, the words are good, but the song is not right. And then we went back in like, the next day and just started doing the core, he started playing the chords of what we have now. And it all came together. And then so that one was like a very magical sort of experience and kind of, I felt like I shed a lot of like, you know, being afraid of writing songs again, and all that stuff. Like, it's so so well in lyrically, I'm just very proud of that one, and then Wash the Hurt Away, I'm exactly like, very proud of the lyrics there, too. I think that's that's one that I'm very happy, we could get that into an animated family film, because you don't get to see a lot of songs that go that, you know, deep and deep and dark. And, and, and that in, I don't know if I can say like, we've talked with Netflix a little bit about like, sort of, you know, what's, what's poppin what's working, and Wash the Hurt Away is like a song that we get a lot of feedback about, like it's a it's a very, like, it shows up, like that song is one, you know, Beyond these Walls and Follow Me Home, we came out with this as like the two kind of singles but Wash the Hurt Away is one that really has connected with people on another level that they're kind of aware of. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. Alicyn Wow. All right, one last question. And then we will wrap it up. I mean, there's so many good questions. I'm so sorry, teenytunes, we're not gonna be able to get this question, which is so good. Ryan You guys can always you know, shoot me a, DM me, I'll get back to you at some point. Alicyn Ricketybiscuit great, great username asks, were animals bird traits designed after a specific kind of bird? I think Egret? Ryan Um, no, we had, so David DePasquale, who was our character designer was tasked with just like different versions of the bird, bird features on Ansel. And that's where we ended up I think. I mean, he feels kind of hawkish to me. We had, yeah, we've gone pretty far with it. There's somewhere you're like, Okay, well, he's clearly a bird. And so yeah, I don't think we, I mean, David might know, David might have like, specific on that particular reference, or that particular design that we chose, whether he was referencing certain things, but like, you know, we want to keep his legs really skinny and like, give him like, kind of, like he's got that like big chest to kind of bird chest and tails. He had tails. I think we got rid of it on his like tuxedo at some point yet. Maybe he hasn't in the finale. But, yeah. Yeah. Alicyn That's alright. Well, okay, maybe we can just do you have time for one more? Ryan One more. One more. Alicyn Okay. Because I think this is just, I I'm really curious about this as well. What it's been like transitioning, always funny when you see a familiar face, transitioning from the movies production to the show's production? And what are the differences between the production? Like is the animation, is it exactly the same as it produced by the same Ryan Produced by Titmouse. We did, we did things a little bit differently for the show, just because of the needs of like, having to turn over episodes, you know, a lot faster, you know, we had whatever, I don't know what the amount of minutes is, but you know, almost like twice the amount of time of the movie or more and probably, you know, similar stretch of production runway. So what we did for the series was we took all of the designs and we there it's in Flash or Adobe Animate. And we like did crazy turns like so crazy. Like I think they did like, you know, like way more than you know, just your five or seven or nine or whatever, like we did a lot of inbetweening and then we did every mouth chart possible. We did every expression like so we over produced the character poses that we had like a lot of information for every character of the mains of Arlo, Bertie, you know, Furlecia, Tony, Alia, and Marcellus and then we, and they worked off of that, so they had, so the animators had a lot more like to pull from where in the movie were actually pretty much hand drawn. So even though we had built like rigs that they could pull into their scenes, that rigs were meant to be more like, you know, this is your body like this. And so you have by that, yeah, you have Yeah, exactly the reference of like, all the proportions, but not to be used as like puppet, the mouth kind of thing. So, so the series in some ways, like the characters look beautiful and perfect all the time. And, you know, get all the like, you know, you get you get like pushed expressions, like you would expect them in the, you know, in a series like board driven series, you get like, we, we definitely break the model. But most of the time, the character is like, pretty darn perfect. Where in the movie, you can tell like shot to shot if the animator changed or, you know, so, yeah. Alicyn That's amazing. Wow. I feel like I learned quite a bit tonight. Ryan There you go. Alicyn Thank you so much for sharing your time with us. I know everybody's very grateful. And I'm very grateful as well. So how do you prefer that people stay in touch with you just following you on Instagram? And you're on Twitter? Ryan Yeah, not really Twitter. Honestly, I, Instagram is about the only thing I do these days. And over the last couple weeks, I've been pushing it even further out. But like, yeah, I, I think the more I, you know, get into, into my life, the more I'm like trying to avoid, like, very like, obviously, if you have questions like Instagram, but I feel like all these other outlets are just like crazy to keep up with. I can't keep up. Alicyn I agree 100%. So the questions we didn't get to. But yeah, yeah, it's hard to manage when you're trying to actually create the work to then have to be on social talking about the work all the time, so. Ryan Plus, I like Instagram, because you get all the art, like, I like looking at people's art more than anything. You know what I mean? Like, no offense to people's opinions, I love, you know, I love your opinions. But I love Instagram, because it's like, mostly, it's like, just people like posting their coolest stuff. And getting to, you know, that's why I found a lot of artists, a lot of people that I worked with on this project that, you know, Stephorazo, who was on here earlier. Like, you know, I put up a post one day, like, hey, I need board artists. And then Steph had, like, what my friend Alicia Gibson lives up in the Bay Area, or whatever, like up in Northern California. And, like Steph like will you do some character designs. So like we just, you know, it was purely Instagram to get to, yeah, so I feel I find Instagram to be the most useful for me. Yeah. Alicyn Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate it and keep us posted about the show. I can't wait to share when it's coming to air. Ryan Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it will,I don't know when the announcement will happen. But I have to imagine people will know in the next couple month or two or whatever. It's got to be, it's got to be, it's got to get announced sometime. Alicyn I'm sure Let'stalkcartoons will hear it first. Ryan Yeah. I'll send, I like to send any messages like it's like we're like in a, in a parking lot somewhere, like something's about to drop today. Get, keep your eyes on this account at 2:30. All right. Well, thank you. Alicyn Thank you so much. Ryan All right. Catch you later. Alicyn Good night. Outro Thanks for tuning in to Alicyn's Wonderland, where we explore the wild and wonderful world of animation and video games. Please remember to subscribe and leave us a review. For more episodes of Alicyn's Wonderland, please visit us at www.AlicynPackard.com. See you next week.